With a week to go until the deadline for nominations for the European Contact Centre & Customer Service Awards ( the ECCCSA's) I sit down to chat with the new Chair of the Judges - Moira Clark and Awards Director of Operations - Jackie Pringle.
[00:00:02] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Get Out of Wrap. This is an exes special and I'm really pleased to be joined by Moira Clark and Jackie Pringle. Jackie's been on the show many times, but this is the first time of meeting Moira.
[00:00:18] Moira is the new Chair of Judges for the European Contact Centre and Customer Service Awards. It's great to have, oh and I should say, professor of strategic marketing. And Director and founder of Henley Centre for Customer Management.
[00:00:34] I'm the Headly Centre. I know a few people that have gone there, great centre, but it's lovely to meet you both. Jackie, great to see you again and Moira, lovely to meet you. Thanks Martin, good to meet you too!
[00:00:48] So we were just talking before hitting record. Why are you such a great fit to be the Chair of the Judges? The exes, as we call them, have come to be known as the Oscars of our industry.
[00:01:03] But can we just get a little bit of background about you? Your history and it's great, professor of strategic marketing. I'm very impressed. Thank you. Well, do you know Martin, I haven't always been an academic, actually.
[00:01:18] I did come from industry and actually there are a number of different jobs that my colleague was recently, before I drop a academic year, was to be a consultant based out in Munich and Germany. So I've always, you know, come from industry, love business and so
[00:01:32] board. And then when I joined academia and joined business school, I had love that interface between industry and what business school can offer. So that's really high. I came to the became a professor at Tahennie Business School.
[00:01:44] Since I've been at Henley, of course, I set up the Henley Centre for Customer Management, which is a kind of consortium of companies who are interested in leading edge best practice in any aspect of customer management. And these organisations tell us
[00:01:57] what keep them awake at night, challenges are that they're facing and then we go and research those topics. But over the years, actually, I have been a judge myself of a number of different awards. I've probably been to more contact centres and
[00:02:13] organisations around the country than you can imagine actually. And what I absolutely totally adore about that is the fact that all the organisations are so different and they bring so much to point you, you've learned so much from going around
[00:02:28] a different organisations. And you might look at, well, somebody in financial service and somebody in telecoms and somebody in pharmaceutical, but the crossover of the learning community, them is really just amazing. So I have
[00:02:40] led and breathe this whole subject really for all of my career in fact. So I'm really proud that you've invited me and privileged actually to do this job. So I've, it's my first time as a chair of the judge unit. So not to be really
[00:02:53] quite exciting. And what I'm hoping with that actually is to bring that level of fairness and impartiality to the role so that I can kind of sit over that. And I know that Jackie this week, actually, it has invited
[00:03:07] I think you're so very honoured. There's no Jackie to come and judge the awards, which has an amazing response to that. And you know, we're again so pleased that you know, the judges will give up their time freely for this
[00:03:20] because it's going to take you and a big responsibility to make sure that you really do choose the best individuals and the best organisations to win the awards. Oh, well, very well said. And Jackie just maybe
[00:03:34] just talk to that then. You see you've gone out to the judges and everyone's keen as mustered. Yeah, absolutely. I mean every year when we go out to invite the judges, you know, because circumstances change for people in
[00:03:50] you know, over time. So I always check him with my judges and say, would you like to judge again this year? These are the timings. This is what we're doing. This is the type of judging we're doing. So obviously, you know with the
[00:04:04] access that a lot of the categories are done by what we call panel judging. So where the organisations will prepare a presentation come along and present that I at very early on a platform like this to a
[00:04:19] panel of judges. And so it's like 20 minutes or half hour depending on the category presentation and then 20 minutes Q&A with the judges as well. So a lot of the judging is done like that. So when you think that we've got
[00:04:33] probably 34ish categories will probably end with depending on how many a split and what have you when we get all the nominations there. But, you know, 34 categories at least eight or 10 in a short list. Each of those presentations needs three or four judges. It's a lot of
[00:04:50] judge. It depends where we we invite a lot of judges and obviously it's really important to get all those specialisms as well. You know, so to know, those people in the industry that have very strong on data and
[00:05:01] insight for that category, the people that are very strong on changing innovation for those kind of categories and stuff like that. And then obviously we do the we do the visits. So we will actually do the whole trades, planes and automobiles across your wherever we need to go
[00:05:18] to visit those categories that are either. But new custom contact information, contact centre of the air outs or contact centre of the air. And those great place to work one, those ones where we need to go the
[00:05:30] judges want to go and smell the coffee. They want to look in the whites of people's eyes. They want to look what's upon the walls as well. So when we go out to the judge, if we say, what kind of
[00:05:40] judging do you want to do? If you're doing panel what dates can you do for me? We get them all the dates. And if we really if they are doing panel dates, they're like, okay, how far we perched travel. If
[00:05:52] you in the UK, how far we perched travel? If you if you're up for it, you want to go out to your as well. So it's the start of the jigsaw about and I always thought my great judging, I'm getting
[00:06:04] my good. Yeah, it's always a really nice part of the year because like I say, you're right to all you judges and there's always some new judges that are coming through as well, previous winners and people that have been recommended by their peers if somebody
[00:06:20] can't do it this year, but they say, you know what? I've got this person and they're really keen to judge in the bin and industry for this long. And then we will talk to them and we'll make sure that they are
[00:06:32] the right fit for what we need for this year's jury. And so it's night because she then got that, you know, or I can't do it this year but I'm not going to judge it delivering or, you know, people have got personal
[00:06:46] circumstances. Somebody that are found out from the second baby, you know, so they can't do it. So it's a real sort of nice kind of reconnect with all those people and that community if you like of judges to catch up with wherever everybody's up to and what's happening
[00:07:02] and yeah, so, you know, as Moe was said, you know, it's a big responsibility. They get so much from there and we love that they give the, you know, the the right experience because we don't want it to be scary and daunting but we
[00:07:19] want it to be robust. And what we've got here is a pool of judges that do exactly that for us, you know, that make the finalist feel relaxed and they enjoy the session but at the same time that level of questioning is,
[00:07:34] you know, absolutely spot on because we've got the right judges for the right for the right category and actually you can see how to do it by Moe there. It's absolutely perfect for the role and a loved Moe
[00:07:47] with air that he said about that breadth of organizations as well because what we get in the exercises, small and large organizations but we get all all playing to organizations from all kinds of sector so, you know, that's such a great
[00:08:02] thick with the over half of what you're doing in terms of what keep people awake and then what you've got over here with what people think they're doing really well so it's fact that we've got that stuff. And at, you know, Jackie, I don't think you can really
[00:08:15] underestimate as well. The learning that people gain go through the whole process and learning from each other. It is an anything actually. So, you know, if somebody does enter, they might not win the first time or maybe whatever but they've got to learn from that whole
[00:08:29] process, just one tough thick really and hopefully they then come back and they then do, you know, they then do progress for the next time around but I think it's amazing that they can do that.
[00:08:39] We see that. We do see that a lot more and we see there, you know, like you said to find a less convuffer, judge, that people even say to me right from the offset, putting the
[00:08:50] nomination together, it would be a good learning because it makes people in our industry with all hundred mile an hour of our way and so it makes people stop, sit back and think,
[00:09:01] how far have we come? What have we come? What were you to tell far we've come? Or actually? That would be it. And then the judge and the questions really make people think
[00:09:12] for the question that they get at the judge and then like you say whatever the outcome, people can ask for feedback and we do see people like come back like say strong and stronger.
[00:09:23] So yeah, brilliant. You both make such a good point. I think being having been involved in the past as a judge and now media partner and as an entrant as well you know there is something
[00:09:37] about that being the process allows you to take a look at what you're doing and to give you you know even just some of the questions that judges ask and think you know you think. If
[00:09:50] you if you're in it to learn and you're in it to you know celebrate your team or celebrate an achievement there is so many gains. You can't lose you know it's to your point more
[00:10:02] you might not win but you will definitely definitely gain something, you're gain a view of where your project or contact centre is that you'll benefit from having people ask you questions we think all you know what. That's great and I think Jackie you've talked in the past about
[00:10:22] people that have come and maybe they've not even placed and then they've come back the next year and they've demonstrated their their improvements and that they've taken on board the learnings and then they've placed and then they've gone on the third year maybe to win you know so
[00:10:39] I think we kind of love those stories don't we? Absolutely absolutely yeah and the other part of that while we're talking about learning is the last couple of years what we've done is invited the gold winners to share their stories at a three-day virtual event called the
[00:10:58] exchange and that's normally in March so obviously the winners are announced at the end of November and then in March we run this event like a virtual conference where you know gosh 100s and hundreds
[00:11:14] of people registered and attended you don't have to attend the whole three days you just dip in an album the presentations that you're interested in and that's been wonderful as well because you know not only this is all about raising standards in the industry, raising standard
[00:11:31] not just contact centre's book customer service and so I think you know we're all pulling in the same direction the fact that those winners don't have to share their stories and sometimes they
[00:11:42] have to take out some bits for confidentiality reasons and what are they but what we find in the masters that those winners want to want to share what they're doing well and for the benefit
[00:11:52] of others and so hopefully we're seeing that ripple effect to you know or saw that great initiative over there while they talked about that and they've taken it back into their workplace and the
[00:12:02] whole thing is just moving up you know so that's been wonderful to see this a couple of years that's come out of these brilliant awards so yeah yeah really proud I don't know sorry sorry
[00:12:17] no go more okay so you can always edit this album it's too long but you know I always have this actually fabulous memory of a small charity who did this he was at the awards award ceremony
[00:12:28] and this huge about the leave it a name this big massive distribution company and they were doing the presentation and they said what one of their initiatives had been to you know to say to
[00:12:38] their staff if they could come up with an idea that improved service but it could only cost £20 and the amazing community they've got it could have spent hundreds of thousands of not millions of pounds that they'd wanted to do and as they're saying is the table behind me
[00:12:52] started to ripple and go oh and they were all talking and it transpired that this huge distribution company had had this tiny weenie small charity do this the year they'd wore and it's thought what a fantastic idea and they had done it and it's mere sort of £20 initiative
[00:13:07] had say they're millions because they did manage to improve their process it's so much it was really it was really great yeah well charity was so real a fairly long idea have been taking on global by this massive company there was too much with huge I love that
[00:13:23] and Moira with you know you are so busy with everything that you are doing you were talking again before we hit record on just how hectic your your week is but why you know being asked to
[00:13:35] be chair of the judges why was that important why did you think yeah you know what I'm going to do this oh because I and so passionate about improving service generally not only for customers
[00:13:48] and kinds and so forth but also improving the whole experience for staff themselves you know actually did my PhD in fact the years ago now but I'm what improves customer retention from
[00:13:59] an employee point of view so that whole you know whole chain if you like from um polygestaph you know all the way through to the customer I think is massively important and what I love about
[00:14:11] these awards it really does take on all the different elements of you say customer insight data management innovation creative a deep and then that happens really unless you look after that
[00:14:22] whole process so I just love it and that's what I live in breathe really so it was it was such a treat to be asked to do this and I'm so pleased to be able to find the time to do it and what are
[00:14:35] you most looking forward to oh wow well I really I jacket I'm really hoping I can actually get out and go and do some of the visit because that really brings it alive I think and like well I'm
[00:14:47] also looking forward to are those those nuggits those juicy stories where you go out of a structure good idea or people have taken something simple and made it into something really a big composite of answer or a big differentiating I think why don't anybody else think of that
[00:15:04] a structure good idea the mind looking forward to those and also those human the stories as well listening to the peak or peace I just love that and I don't know whether your judge judges do this
[00:15:14] or not Jackie but that when I used to judge we always had to go off piece a little bit you know because you'd go have a little quiet chat to the cleaning lady or who ever it was and just have a little
[00:15:24] chat to them and it's amazing the things that you find out see what good well look at the notice boards and so forth absolutely it's brilliant there's a very exciting time and it's great
[00:15:34] that you know you guys actually want to to host this because I know this is a bigger than taking to do this it's not a small football in jiffa. I think everyone marbles that the
[00:15:46] organisational prowess of Jackie and your and your team is it's some undertaking. It is, you know but you know what it really really me watering the epitetic house on people and even
[00:16:01] now I always look at it as I am an I am a people person I think everybody knows that but I think you know making sure that the entrance and the finalists have the right to experience making sure
[00:16:13] that the judges have the right to experience so that they do want to come back year after year and then to get the same as the ones that I've had this week we can have been lucky and the more
[00:16:23] rare has everything that she needs to do the role the best of her ability and to be as involved as she wants to be and and you know I'm not forgetting the sponsors in the media partners as well who
[00:16:34] we just couldn't do these without so it kind of you know making sure that a bit like we talked about you know before we talk about the colleagues and the customers and making sure that it's right
[00:16:45] for everybody but you know these awards are really special and I think we've already talked about it you know people refer to the miss the Oscar that no small sort of accolade to kind of keep
[00:16:57] I don't need to keep up now so yeah we're really proud of these awards we are really really proud of them and this year is looking like another very very very exciting program I mean you know
[00:17:11] they close next Friday so there's still a week to get entries in it's not too late it's it's really easy to put an entry in it doesn't need to take masses and masses of time if you're doing
[00:17:24] something good you should just be able to put it down on the form without too much you know thought of that without too much thinking so yeah you go on to our ex-a website you go onto
[00:17:35] the portal if not already got an account you register it's really really easy you ask you answer some sort of straightforward questions about you and your organisation and your details email address
[00:17:48] phone and we can get hold of you etc and then you enter the crux of the questions depending on what the category is and and that's it so the deadline is midnight next Friday 19 July we
[00:18:02] never have already started having those emails or can we just start a couple more weeks no sorry you can't we never ever ever extend the deadline there are no some other awards programs do but
[00:18:13] we go we don't believe that it's fair to the people that have met the deadline and and to be honest our timelines don't affordals that luxury because we're straight into the shortlisting
[00:18:25] sending the entries out to the online panel of judges that have said that they will do shortlisting for it and then we get those results and those outcomes of that and we announce the finalists mid-awarguest
[00:18:39] and then we're straight into judging September and October and before you know it we're at the dinner at the Eval Eastern in London the Battersea Park which is the most amazing venue and before
[00:18:50] you know it we are there at the end of November so we won't be expending the deadline is what I'm trying to say there so if you do want to potentially send them make sure you do buy midnight next
[00:19:02] Friday and if you've already started your entries or put them in you can carry on editing them Hill Midnight next Friday so you can put them in on Monday to leave the next week and did
[00:19:12] they're doing whatever you want the one that the judge is a look at if the one that's on record at midnight next Friday I'm happy and why would you think what would you say to companies that are maybe
[00:19:23] they're listening to this and they're thinking should we go for it should we not go for it what would you say to them oh gosh I would say absolutely go for it because you've got you've truly got nothing to lose you know
[00:19:35] as a as we said before even if you don't actually even get shortlisted or whatever the process of going through it will so set you up well for a future time if you when you do want to go for it
[00:19:45] or even just understanding your business more I think one of the things I find massively frustrating all the work that I do exactly I'll have to our teacher on R&B A program I do a lot
[00:19:54] of the exit of education and so on and so forth and consults a few other might own right but one of things I find so frustrating is not enough people could have stayed in the ground they don't
[00:20:04] assess where are we now and where do we want to go and as Jackie said before we're all opening it you know thousand miles an hour as it were so we don't stop and reflect and this process
[00:20:14] really helps you do that it helps stop and reflect me where are we on now what are our achievements what should we be shouting about as Jackie also said you know you then get seven of those
[00:20:24] probing questions from the judges you know really should have done that you know next time you've absolutely got to nail out I mean I can think of some really famous companies that have been through this process and have actually then seriously nailed it the next time around because
[00:20:37] of the question they've had from the judges so I would say please go for it as Jackie said put it in early you can still edit it and what if you got to lose you've got an apple to lose
[00:20:47] you will we'll do then and it sounds a bit enough when I don't mean that but you're going to join a fantastic community where you will learn so much from so many other people and from the judges
[00:20:57] as well as well as each other it's such a great point even yesterday I was getting messages from people who and maybe you don't often appreciate this because you're in it and you're organizing it
[00:21:10] but outside of that this is like a lighthouse with an our industry these are key dates where people are saying oh be great to catch up and if I don't see you before I'll see you at the exes you know
[00:21:24] and are you you know a immediate partner you're judging and there's all these other conversations that happen around what you've done with these awards you know it's it's become a key thing that we
[00:21:36] look at in the year and go great we'll see you there in November you know so well done to you guys because again it's that it is that sense of community if at any point you've been in this process
[00:21:50] it's like earning your stripes right you kind of go yeah I know I know what it's like and there is nothing to lose through becoming a part of this community by entering you know there's so many
[00:22:02] different categories did you say 34? Yeah so we don't open with 34 then obviously we we think we'll end up with about that number so something like you know best played to work that might end
[00:22:16] up with being splitting to small organizations in our organizations or just depends on if it we think that or if the judge is not me I'm not a judge I'm just the organizer behind it
[00:22:29] though but if if the judge is I don't know I'm I'm gonna make the numbers up but if you've got 100 nominations for a category and you try and get it down to 10 and you think well we're just
[00:22:40] going to lose R2 many and it's not 100 I'm making the numbers up and but you know if you think we're gonna lose far too many good entry then we'll split it into two so that the two cats
[00:22:51] bit through all the entry that should be going through to the shortlist goes through so we will that's where we will break out and spread category thought equally if there aren't enough
[00:23:04] credible entry it's for the category then we'll look at you know we're not just going to go ahead with a category because we've not enough they've got to it got to be credible so that's where
[00:23:14] more we were as chair of judges and the judge is commenting because it got to be you know fast rule and really very well tonight I now have said it before but I really pride myself on the
[00:23:26] robustness and the fairness behind the judging process and I know that I had a couple of judges joined the jury last year that were winners from the previous year because they made fantastic judge
[00:23:40] and and they said gosh we we didn't have any idea that like all this went on behind the scenes because obviously we'd brief the judge's you know and we the paper work that we give them
[00:23:51] in the garden but give them enough thing and they were you know they and that for me kind of I was like that's really good because they absolutely know that they didn't just win you know they
[00:24:05] absolutely get now what what's behind it all so so yeah and you write about that whole community outside of has what I am I on the one third yeah no no sorry so first day last Thursday
[00:24:19] I was lucky enough to go over in host visit at the Lego Group in Berlin and they won best panoramic contact centre blushier and say they opened their doors up to any of the CCMA in the
[00:24:36] UK members but also our association partners across your it they invited their members as well as part of the new effort to group that we are now that they invited them so I went and hosted
[00:24:49] that busy and again it was that kind of the trophies over there to keep in the cabinet and that's you walk around the contact centre they have like the timeline on their wall if you know when
[00:25:01] duplobrics were first introduced and when the braille was introduced when this was introduced in that and started out whatever and there was the the point on it of where they'd worn certain
[00:25:12] awards you know and and they don't go for it every year because they only go when they've got something good to tell when they've done a really good piece of work or whatever and so it was just
[00:25:22] lovely to see that again because I don't always get to see that what it means for within you know and they were like oh this is Jack Kooshe's here from the Exah Awards you know and it was just
[00:25:34] so nice to see it how it's been received and then you know that was that was lovely so yeah that was off with mm I think that's something I'd really actually just pick up one if I made Jackie
[00:25:47] I wouldn't be doing this role either if it wasn't that I really approve of the robustness of your awards because people obviously do come up with different awards from time to time
[00:25:56] and I think I wouldn't want to be involved with something that I didn't think wasn't that impartial and bust and I know you've got a superb robust process so I'm really very happy to be involved in
[00:26:06] that. I'm also really looking forward to actually meeting at the judges I hope I can get to meet as many of them as possible would be great and maybe as quite a number of engines would be good
[00:26:17] yeah I'll make sure that you do more yeah thank you. And now more you mentioned something earlier around the importance of our colleagues employees in everything that we do around delivering you know service to customers and customer experience I think there's something in this and if we're talking
[00:26:38] to contact centre leaders right now to take the moment to stop and think how going into the award just going into it regardless of whether you win or not is is giving something to your
[00:26:50] employees is recognizing what they are doing is worthy of attention yeah I couldn't agree more as Martin I think that's exactly right and and to celebrate their successes you know in the
[00:27:04] work that I've done in this whole area one of the things that I find drives business performance better than anyone else and actually it's not necessarily employee engagement strange the word that we've done shows very much that they're higher the employee engagement
[00:27:20] school we've got to have that but often it negatively impacts customer experience you get how I'm on a minute more isn't really seen right well it's because people are so good their job they kind of forget about the customer. But what we find really does drive business
[00:27:37] performance actually is what I call warmth and support cohesion socializing working as a team those things that really matter and this award is a great opportunity to do all that you know recognizing what people have done to celebrate some of those successes but to really show
[00:27:54] that you care about the team and that you can work together with this kind of common goal it's a cohesion pulling together with a common purpose like that's when they're award.
[00:28:04] It's a really powerful thing to do in an organization and I think a an effort to do and if you don't have that cohesion in a positive sense what can happen is we've discovered it all
[00:28:15] well again if you went with a common enemy and the common enemy let me tell you can sometime in the poor performing companies the common enemy can sometimes be the customers and the senior
[00:28:27] managers and be the one great if it was appropriate for them you know so we don't want any of that what we want is that's all companies who want to cohesion around a common goal which
[00:28:38] providing fabulous service ultimately. I love that that's very insightful so Jackie can you this has been brilliant but can you just remind people then of the of the key dates they've got until next Friday which is what date what date is that? 19th July midnight on the 19th
[00:28:59] of July next Friday to Smith entry we'll be announcing the shortlist on the 25th of August and then we will be coming out with arrangements of the judging so I think the panel dates are
[00:29:14] end of September in the first two weeks in October and then yeah the dinner at evolution is in November the end of November so that is all you know brilliant I just wanted just to go back to that point
[00:29:29] Martin if a may that more we just made there about that sort of collaboration piece because I'm recorded a webinar backing me that's still available on the website if anybody wants to go back and
[00:29:40] watch it with a view to putting entry Z and one of the things that I say there is that you can print off the entry form and go and talk to different stakeholders within the business you know whether
[00:29:51] you're asking for the input into the entry or whether you say will you read this and make sure that it makes sense and I think that you know that's the like Moira said there that may be
[00:30:02] about all working together for the same goal and if you play that through to the judging that are just talked about there at the end of September and into what proba is you know don't forget
[00:30:13] to include the right people in your presentation for the judges very often what the judge is feedback it was great that you had all your senior managers on there but what we needed to hear from
[00:30:25] was the people or you say well it was great that we heard from the outsource of what where was the client or it was great that we heard from the client but where was the technology partner so
[00:30:35] make sure that all those people are involved in the nomination and in the judging because that comes across really strong with the judges so sorry because I know that you asked me about the
[00:30:48] dates but it just couldn't help but to very well think that is really helpful for my experience working with judges. No it's a really really good point and it's an exciting time of the year I
[00:31:02] love it when we start going into this process I think it kind of gets everyone to raise their game a little bit and it's great Moira that you are the chair of the judges I think you're going to
[00:31:12] bring loads to this process just your your insight and your experience alone is going to benefit everyone so thank you very much for doing it. Thank you both for coming on get out a wrap look forward to catching up maybe within the process perhaps. Thank you, thank you
[00:31:29] we love it and if not before on Tuesday the 20th of November at Evelution in back to back Martin with a lot of the other people thanks as always Martin for this great interview this morning
[00:31:40] and thank you for putting his both at E and making it such an enjoyable conversation thank you. Always a pleasure thank you very much. Thank you for watching. Bye.