ian is an awesome guy and we talk about his career and then about a subject we are passionate about but is often overlooked and that is Team Leaders.
Thankfully Centrical have focused on Team Leaders and Ian shares the recent developments in their offering.
[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_01]: Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Get Out of Wrap Today I'm very pleased to be joined by Ian Chappell who is direct
[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_01]: of consulting internationally for Centrical and I've known Ian a long time we've been at a lot of events together.
[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_01]: We've got very similar backgrounds Ian thank you for joining me today.
[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Ian, us the Sunstance Performance Omar it's obviously a podcast that are all at religiously
[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_00]: and I know that you didn't agree with the pod and also with the team leader, Timmyr.
[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00]: He wishes exactly what this industry needs.
[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_00]: The people that matters sometimes do get a little bit left behind with thought leadership
[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and these kind of things so I think what you do is fantastic it's a real pleasure for me and Centrical
[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_00]: to be on our first galber up.
[00:00:45] [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much and straight back out you can tell when you meet people, can't you?
[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_01]: You just go oh yeah we've got several scars and stories and it does kind of shape who you are
[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: but also you guys at Centrical do some great stuff and I'm not just saying that we will
[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: and we'll get into that in a bit.
[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_01]: So right now direct of consulting internationally but where did it start for you this journey
[00:01:10] [SPEAKER_01]: in our industry?
[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah so obviously I'm from the North East and it's like you know we should be doing that.
[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah yeah we should print paints and I kind of buy a Lynn sob story and we'll be using the
[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_00]: background for this one but you know I went to college I've school weather college and then
[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_00]: didn't know if I wanted to go to uni or not so I had kind of the gap here and at the time
[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_00]: if you didn't want to go and work in retail there was a lot of contact sent us open and so
[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_00]: we're talking like 98 and 99 but in some of them there was some really big kind of flagship
[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_00]: contact sent us like Royal Mail, Barclays and one to one which then became team all about.
[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_00]: So I started it Wonder One as a cold tip and I took my call my first call in the 70th
[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_00]: August 1999 just after my 70th birthday and I wasn't allowed to work past quite a clock because
[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't in the in so you got to put in your our teams and up there we all went off to do
[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of 12 hours shifts work till the Saturday and for my first kind of year I had to
[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_00]: like work one day at a Friday night but I'm because of restrictions around under it then so
[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00]: I was I was an agent and obviously being a teenager I was probably an agent with a little bit
[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00]: chip on the shore as well you know being told kind of what to do all day every day by team
[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there was that board in it really the development people that then it was more
[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of the customers always right you do with the customer needs there was no such thing as
[00:02:32] [SPEAKER_00]: employee engagement it wasn't even mentioned there was literally there's your headset there's your
[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_00]: ship going sit over there and take 100 calls you need to go to the toilet put kind of it was like
[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_00]: really completely different word is now so I did that for a for two or three years moved and
[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00]: about office roles like email admin you know getting a regal sort of view was to what
[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_00]: constant relations were all about then I moved in who being a teel leader and as probably most
[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_00]: people it's the hand around long enough you've done all right in that role as your team leader
[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00]: how do you start on one day learn off that person risk and then I did that for a while then I moved
[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_00]: WFN and that just came about purely out of when students thought there was a guy that worked
[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_00]: with in a kind of a but office team of the projects yes people want to go to India to sell
[00:03:18] [SPEAKER_00]: and outsource contact sent it to the team all well so when did that and when I was out there I
[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_00]: met the the husband of the manager of WFN and he said look think if you'd be great for real time
[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you you're under the kind of on the floor stop really well so then fell into real time
[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you know sort of the consent of police you've been on rap to three minutes running around with
[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: police appear at least people left themselves locked in again totally different how real time works
[00:03:43] [SPEAKER_00]: now right and then just move through planning so I did a lot well to 30 years in fun and roles
[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00]: finish and up before I got into kind of this gig this side of the fence finish and it was
[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of a plan and manager and yet so I kind of saw the contract sent from every single side
[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00]: in what was probably 15 or 16 years and then moved to be the consultant for workforce management
[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_00]: around six years ago did that for three years and then I saw send it along LinkedIn and I just thought
[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_00]: this did like bull moments every single vendor on the market talks about employee engagement
[00:04:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and this when I saw that this is exactly what this is for this is kind of that to really talk
[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_00]: how to make that date a day and boy engage and get people bought into what they do so this really is
[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_00]: software for people but yeah I really love what we do and I think we've done a great job
[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_00]: having the background be you like you said having the scars right I do and our console what
[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_00]: we're going to talk about the date by the one have that background you might as well just
[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_00]: be talking to Chuck G.P.T. you know yes so I hope that kind of answers the question but yeah
[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_00]: you know got the scars to prove it we know how difficult it is and we'll get into sort of
[00:04:59] [SPEAKER_00]: how the roles involved were that line manager front line colleague how that's evolved and still
[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_00]: let how we kind of he had helped and and listed at the market and trying to you know transition
[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_00]: with the roles with with what we're doing with the product that is a a whistle stop talk I just want
[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_01]: to there's so much there that I'd love to pick into and don't worry we're going to get to the
[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_01]: take a new back then to the 17 year old culture shocker of kind of being just hammered by
[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_01]: calls and being told what to do and customers always write and like you say just no concept
[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_01]: of employing engagement back then is funny where you are now but what kept you then in that role could
[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_01]: you said you did that for a couple of years before being a team leader what kept you doing that
[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah I think it probably came from kind of how I was brought up to be honest with you know my
[00:05:57] [SPEAKER_00]: doubt was a the minor that he was a builder and he was kind of self employed so it was always kind
[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_00]: of getting a steady job get a steady income and you know then it's kind of waste house
[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_00]: 2.4 chilled made up that kind of it was that kind of like sort of background where they were
[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_00]: from I guess it was that a generational thing so you know once I got into a job and I started
[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00]: to make money and you know the context that had pretty well you know like that for a 17 year old
[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00]: it did a fantastic you know I was able to go up with based on my mates start my driving lessons
[00:06:30] [SPEAKER_00]: you know all that good stuff so I guess it was the fact that you know you had a good time
[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_00]: outside of work when you 70 so it made going into work more bearable but I think what really kept me
[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_00]: there it was obviously I got a school that I got a college note with people of similar age
[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_00]: but when I went into a contract center and went into that team I was with people from all
[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_00]: different backgrounds, cultures, different ages, different viewpoints it was hilarious you know
[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_00]: funny used to get ribbed for being the young and it all that good stuff and I think it was the kind
[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_00]: of I guess the band that that keeps you there you know I've been an after all sort of got
[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_00]: really good memories of some of the teams I worked in that team with 12 or 30 and just some of the
[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_00]: things you know you should do like flat Friday go at the chippy all the stuff that I think
[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_00]: something to have lost now with with call were there and people working sitting in bedrooms
[00:07:22] [SPEAKER_00]: and sitting in there you know in their kitchen taking calls the role itself like I said must
[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_00]: be really tough so I think what made a retouch job easy was working with group people
[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_00]: and to be honest with you and what kind of team leader were you? I was and I've I've I've
[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_00]: as our sort and sometimes how I do still see it because and I get on the one I was like well
[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's like kind of a you know the customer that we speak in the prospect we speak
[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_00]: them. There's still isn't kind of a finishing school or a grandbed for team leaders
[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00]: think it is improvements likely but you know back then it was kind of
[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_00]: it was through there was the Dawn Shoot the messenger team leader
[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and I was probably a mix of all three of these right it was the Dawn Shoot the match to team leader
[00:08:09] [SPEAKER_00]: you know I'm not really bought into give me a bad message what this is what my
[00:08:14] [SPEAKER_00]: obseges tell me to tell you because I'm getting in the net it was the kind of smile and
[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_00]: not team leader you know you're going to ruin other color say she'd have a bit of a runk
[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_00]: new rave just about yeah yeah yeah yeah to cook the kind of false notes and you've never
[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_00]: he read anything and again that's really disengage as well and then I think the final one's
[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of the bad habits team leader like the kind of deputy right the one who being a buddy and
[00:08:37] [SPEAKER_00]: from someone else who was probably not the best anywhere because they were going on holiday
[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_00]: all the rough on long term sick although moving into another department so then it was like sort
[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_00]: of like you don't you the messenger the smile and not in the bad habits one and I probably
[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_00]: had traits of all of them to be honest with you and I think I was just two york you know I was
[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_00]: got a little bit too young and we didn't really have the framework in place to hand the
[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_00]: reconvlications and I think that's critical I think you've got to be credible the appears when
[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_00]: we've gone from working with them to then sort of manage in them or supervising them or
[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00]: court should never have been those you know those conversations of like you know and he
[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_00]: takes some time up because me dogs gonna put down or you know all the all the stuff that comes
[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_00]: if managing people have done something else really ready for us so that's why I was probably
[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01]: best that I then moved into planning to be honest. In my fair way more because I saw this both
[00:09:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I think I was a bit of this and then I saw this when I managed team leaders one more that I'd
[00:09:35] [SPEAKER_01]: flour in because I love those three but potentially a fourth is the union rep yeah so
[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_01]: so I spent especially when I first started with my team said they weren't happy with something
[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't judge it the tool or try and question it or maybe talk to them about why things needed
[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01]: be done I just went straight to my boss so my team aren't happy about this we need to change it
[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_01]: you know and you were just like a mouth mouth he's with a more vocal in your in your team
[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_01]: and then managing team leaders you could recognize versions of yourself or put you know the
[00:10:15] [SPEAKER_01]: character moments in time where you'd be like oh god this team leaders are pain and I'll be like
[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01]: I also used to be a pain for that kind of thing yeah is you're right you don't know what you do
[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so I don't think so it's almost like you know when you start in any job like you're
[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_00]: in an incubation and then that sort of ramp phase and you get to the kind of top of the mountain
[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_00]: leader we used to go through like in levels to age and the top level's level three she got
[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_00]: level three is an age and you got you kind of gold badge you would see this sort of one of the senior
[00:10:45] [SPEAKER_00]: agents who was you know didn't do a good job at all that good stuff but then when you then all
[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_00]: of a sudden be the manager you back you back at the start again and you see get the top of the
[00:10:53] [SPEAKER_00]: back at the square one all over again and I said I think it's in demic in the industry I don't
[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_00]: think it's probably going to change in terms of recruitment managers but it's kind of how we set them
[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_00]: up is and is kind of crucial to their success but also the success of the people that they manage
[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you know we're in massive crisis point with attraction retention, attrition all that stuff that
[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_00]: we know and the manager experience creates a huge part in us you know because
[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I always think that you know in Santa Go we hear that you know we're fixing for the same things
[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00]: it all looked every vertical in convex and industry right all the agents care about is
[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_00]: do I get trapped well is the development can I get time off I'm up here to do my entire
[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and what am I shit like that's generally those mix of those things whether that's your travel
[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_00]: loss but tell me tell core bank and whatever it might be the manager's treat should we all
[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_00]: and convey the right messages and have the right conversations and not be in hidden behind
[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_00]: it the monitor or be invisible you're not being present and I think I don't think I was set up
[00:11:57] [SPEAKER_01]: brawler no I don't think I don't think any of us are and I know when you know it's right being
[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of involved or you know seeing your you central stuff and meeting all the lovely people there
[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_01]: think a couple of years now and that light bulb moment you mentioned what what was that then
[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_01]: because I think I've had the same one when I when I saw what your capabilities were and I guess
[00:12:27] [SPEAKER_01]: more important than the capabilities is the reason why you are doing this yeah so you know if we
[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_00]: we go back to step probably probably five years ago and it was like every single vendor in
[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_00]: your my world you know selling selling software into comic scenes into outsource partners they're
[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_00]: all taught about employee engagement we'll fix employee engagement we'll improve employee engagement whether
[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_00]: that was through you know or amating some boron work through bots whether it was or
[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_00]: amating some ships stuff but feel like a schedule is whether it was let in the agent self schedule
[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_00]: not many people were talking about kind of how do we improve that that desk engagement how do we get
[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00]: people care more when when they're at work and that's that's all we thought was on right
[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_00]: that you know we're not you know we're not a workforce planning solution we're not a scheduling
[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_00]: solution what we take care of is you know hopefully events will have a great work like balance
[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_00]: but if there's still contract to 40 hours a week with a bad manager they're not getting insight into
[00:13:26] [SPEAKER_00]: what they need to do how's they need to do it what does their development path we're look like
[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_00]: those still be disengaged at work so how do we improve that kind of asking engagement and that's
[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_00]: how we can kind of out with this sort of view of where a performance experience but how can we build
[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_00]: a good experience around performance and again I always talk about kind of three main things
[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_00]: visibility or an issue in collaboration you know I think I think in a lot of in a lot of business
[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00]: is still looking back at kind of performance management the dreaded performance management
[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a process visibility collaboration and ownership they there weren't three things that
[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_00]: included in that process in my opinion it was all very top down don't shoot the message and this
[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_00]: it was like the fear obedience to that yeah and dreaded tip the person the belt and plan sounds
[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_00]: lovely but in theory is a sort of an year or a nine year old age and go to a PDP you go on
[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_00]: up against the fire and squad you know because the weird that we can be at the message and
[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_00]: is a trotters and I think we still hear this today and I think people are you know business
[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_00]: to do a lot of trying and improve that path I think they're still a long way to go so yeah so
[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00]: we we talk a lot about you know let's create an experience around their around performance it's
[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_00]: not so we have going away but let's feel as though the egg and all that they work with their
[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_00]: manager closely to got that good experience between each other but the visibility is crucial
[00:14:54] [SPEAKER_01]: you know so yeah and I think the thing that struck me interestingly when looking about I mean
[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm all in with kind of it feels like reclaiming performance development right performance management
[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_01]: call it what you will to take it from something that's a fearful part of you leaving our industry
[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_01]: rather it is actually helping you be the best version of yourself right which is if you took
[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_01]: this in any other industry and said oh I'm going to work with you now to make you better at
[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_01]: your job you go okay great thanks you know we're the with us like you say especially when
[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_01]: you younger and someone says right you need to go on and put performance improvement plan you
[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: instantly go to what happens if I don't improve yeah I'm going to get so low stress just
[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: but just say it's not looking good yeah and then I think you know we well I will see your
[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_00]: heel that really good term but flip into pyramids right so rather being kind of top down
[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_00]: this is how we're going to do things you know almost make it feel to the for the 19s that they all
[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_00]: their performance and it work together collaboratively to the to really drive the improvement
[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_00]: but again it's not just saying there's a hard and fun start of 90% in your 60s so you're
[00:16:08] [SPEAKER_00]: rubbish can we incrementally help you improve what the time because you're on a development curve
[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_00]: your embedding skills you might just come back from long term absolutely know whatever it
[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_00]: might be let's help people improve so that they feel as though back you know that kind of
[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00]: confidence and confidence is working together over a period of time so they get to where we need
[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_00]: them to get to so they're not seeing well this is completely overwhelming I'm going to go
[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_00]: drive for aromas or go work in costor or star books you know because I think you know the speak about
[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_00]: you know when we when we look at those steps around kind of recruitment store people are leaving the
[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_00]: where they do when we start and out it was I want to go next door because I get picked and
[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_00]: it's refined and probably you're now people are sitting right on up I'm not doing this for a
[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00]: living and they leave the industry up together which I think is a little bit of a worry but what
[00:16:55] [SPEAKER_00]: we need to get at hand one meeting that experience work a little bit better and how how important
[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_01]: then is it to you guys and you in what you offer that there's an element of something we've
[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_01]: mentioned that's kept us in the industry and that's fun yes so you know gamification is always
[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_00]: being in conacenter right so so we we used the implication a lot right but it's all it should all it
[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_00]: or it should be the current not the stick you know we want incentivized people to care that
[00:17:27] [SPEAKER_00]: little bit more and we do that through things of mention visibility or shouldn't collaboration
[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_00]: we you know if we think back there will be a white board with tinsel round it and there'll be a
[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_00]: basket at the team and just desk you know all that stuff that was within there but I guess just
[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_00]: thought sort of incremental reminders and fan use go down go down a lot and automate in those and
[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_00]: you know work is work you know we don't see ourselves as you know people going to come to work
[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_00]: and play again we use kind of game mechanics to keep people on the right track and peat
[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and focus and more evaded but it's not a case of getting you know every at the end of every once
[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_00]: get rewarded can we do can we say a fanster people daily from we give people small rewards daily
[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_00]: can we get people to give each of them thanks you know through a mechanism we have in those
[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00]: in the solution called kudos you know where you can sunk your colleague and you know the the
[00:18:22] [SPEAKER_00]: manager didn't then sunk the colleague right identify in that and it all that good stuff so
[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of drives a bit more of a positive environment but we used game mechanics to to pretty good
[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00]: we started out with a game application company way back when what up to brought it on a lot now
[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_00]: to you know build this experience around all things performance reverse I love the phrase game
[00:18:42] [SPEAKER_01]: mechanics and you know right from the get guy I remember when I first looked at your offering
[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_01]: and thought I wish I'd had this both as an agent but you've taken it on now haven't you and
[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: you're you're doing something that we're both very passionate about and that is around the team leaders
[00:19:02] [SPEAKER_01]: around the advantages yeah could you just talk us through that yeah so so we're just about
[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_00]: to launch what we call team performance sample and in essence you know what what we what we always
[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_00]: look to do with any data that we've put an instrument of an agent or think about that thing
[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_00]: like a team leaders or supervisors you know we always look to make that data actionable you know again
[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_00]: we want to we want to get rid of some of the noise we want to increase the value at time and get
[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_00]: rid of admin time we don't don't expect managers to be bi analysts we don't employ a million
[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_00]: reports we're in order different data software right what conversation are going to have with Martin
[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_00]: did it I'm not sports and since last month or last week what are we doing today so we put everything
[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_00]: front and center now we make it very very easy to understand we show sort of where the biggest areas for
[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_00]: to say thanks to someone for improving slightly is so you know straightways of manager you can
[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_00]: be the hero by given someone on the back or a fence well likewise those more you know historically
[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_00]: difficult conversations how can we give the manager a tool kit and this is this is where I think
[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_00]: but the one size fits all forwards management is is dead and buried right I mean yes you're
[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_00]: going to have a target and how you're traveling against those targets but we all know that but
[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_00]: if I can do a combination of different things to get the right result out of Martin that might be different
[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_00]: Ian but we want to get the same end point but it might be a different set of things to do for
[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_00]: each person to get that point so it could be that I might work better if I get to set a
[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_00]: coaching action with very sort of you know guided pointers what I need to do you might be a better
[00:20:39] [SPEAKER_00]: by being set a little challenge Martin if you can put if you can improve by 5% by next Friday
[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_00]: that's a thumbs up for me we're on the right track and it's not what we can work on rather
[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_00]: just being faster and build black or white you know red or green as it has been previously so
[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_00]: it's about given the manager the insight it's about you know we're also as well launching an AI
[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_00]: assistant right so if the minute think there's a lot of a lot of theory a lot and it's
[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00]: something a little bit confusion what AI is going to do to to the contact send a role whether that's
[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_00]: different line colleague or a team leader and what we always talk about is kind of it's a turk-hook
[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_00]: augmentation can they live side by side so can we you know asking AI chat bot to go and sort of
[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_00]: find out what what made you my mission who hasn't had kudos no love sweet who's had the biggest improvement
[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00]: and can you correlate that improvement against an advocate the eye can you write me a kudos than
[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_00]: you and you make a fully it because that purpose might like something that's a little bit more like
[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_00]: art and that then gives the money to this huge tool of it and kind of all of the all of the
[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_00]: point is the need to have the right discussion but at the right time so it's not just waiting for
[00:21:56] [SPEAKER_00]: go to performance review you know at the end of next week what a stand for I was pulling all that
[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_00]: together and then you're going to see it until you're stepping in room you know that that's no
[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00]: gone it's about given sounds having the right conversation as in when they are so we're always keeping
[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_00]: people on the road track but add all the things performance should be a secret to the front
[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_00]: line colleague or their manager it should be fully visible all the time but we need to get
[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_00]: managers heads out of pulling reports right you're disseminate what the date is telling them and
[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_01]: get them to have those conversations as a matter happens I love that and I love the idea it
[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_01]: the word that kept coming into my head when you were talking then was support so if I'm a front line
[00:22:37] [SPEAKER_01]: team member I feel supported by the visibility and the comprehensiveness of what's being shown to
[00:22:46] [SPEAKER_01]: me and how I can improve both through no intervention from my manager and with intervention
[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_01]: if I'm a manager if any of us have been managers in the past when you were mentioning how many
[00:23:00] [SPEAKER_01]: hours it took to I can remember being in a situation where just to get the right level of
[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_01]: data that was being asked of me from those above me took me half of my day and then what would
[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_01]: happen is when they wanted to discuss either the team performance or individuals performance
[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_01]: they would say what are you going to do about this because I want to see some improvement and
[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_01]: I'd say well I've only got two hours left so and I've got 15 in my team and I know tomorrow
[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to spend another four or five hours collecting yesterday's information and it was limiting
[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_01]: the time for me to have a positive impact so exactly just how you've explained there
[00:23:44] [SPEAKER_01]: using AI to go and gather that and present it in a way that I could use as a manager for me
[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_01]: is probably the most salient point of her than anyone make about AI in a long long time
[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah and we have been sort of challenging before one of Sean people is like
[00:24:02] [SPEAKER_00]: well this this surely can't replace court having a coaching discussion it's like this is not
[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_00]: good at this is going to make that coaching discussion more valuable yeah I can give you the time to do
[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_00]: it yeah I'm giving the telling me I was I was talking one while at Lard his customers when I met
[00:24:18] [SPEAKER_00]: them first of his last year and their CEO just said look all I want my team understood be a more
[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00]: impactful coaches that's it so I want to be more impactful coaches and that really stuck with me
[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00]: and what we're doing now is going to it's going to really help bring that on so whether you're
[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_00]: at a new team leader you know going into that sort of you know going into the team for the first
[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_00]: time often it could be at first week you're going to know exactly what and how and you know
[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_00]: what's working the past what they haven't worked or if you're an older team leader maybe
[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you have your all way of doing things you might then be able to improve as well but I think what it
[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00]: ideally looked to achieve in any organisation is this kind of management consistency you know
[00:25:06] [SPEAKER_00]: you're using yourself like if you're on a team with a great team leader then you will go on all
[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_00]: the next week you're moving to maybe a different department or that you just do like sort of
[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00]: team changes in the way you like tell a bit and shuffle in the past right I'm going to go over that
[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_00]: team leader and I've heard really about things about that and it's the kind of maybe it's a bad
[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_00]: habit team manager maybe to don't shoot the messenger one book the experiences and great so
[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00]: can we make that experience a little bit more consistent across the operation and that's what
[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to do with this as well I think that's another good point because as soon as you get
[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_01]: any kind of performance review that is associated with an outcome right and that outcome could be
[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_01]: a one to five scale or whatever I think where you guys come in and really help with that that
[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01]: is a good word there consistency I know I've been in a situation I can remember as an agent
[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_01]: my team leader was tough right so didn't give out five or fours very often and would walk you
[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_01]: through it I knew I was better than a friend of mine I know I was because we'd obviously talk
[00:26:12] [SPEAKER_01]: all the time and even though we're in different teams and he come out of his appraisal like oh
[00:26:22] [SPEAKER_00]: team leader yeah and then you know why he's so requiring you know I think everyone's
[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_00]: experienced working in a for an operation different if we can make the sort of the delivery
[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_00]: of the message and the management the consistent you're still out of your really negative
[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_00]: people you always got to have that noise six kind of one by that all in a team to kind of get
[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_00]: people bigger and all you know having a little bit of a whining the more and about you know big
[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_00]: brother and how band is to work with but if we can get rid of some of that as well I think
[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that'll help keep people because again it makes the experience a little bit more positive
[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_00]: you know it is a tough job and with the eyes only when it's often for the front line guys you
[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_00]: know it's going to make the the comments probably a little bit longer it's been a deal with
[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_00]: only the difficult stuff we should look at enough general inquiries or your pre-pid footwork
[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you have the structure cards on the windows these thought was in the idea you slow that after
[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00]: a war that maybe taking bill and calls and getting a shout at us all of them call to have
[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_00]: generally gone down mother on the way out and even I'm Sportacustler's where they've took some
[00:27:35] [SPEAKER_00]: of their AI out of the operation because it's having a department left for all of that experience
[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_00]: just automatic wrap up of calls you know the AI's but it's similar at the end of your
[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_00]: colon and quick strip out on ready they realize that they need that after call work that we
[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00]: were already 92% utilization that then knocked 95% and people were just completely burned out
[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_00]: we're just going along the toilet breaks and I'll come back for lunch on time you know so
[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_00]: think there is a balance in act and I don't ever see it sort of I don't think everyone will get
[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_00]: spawn but I think if we can help so if we can help managers have a bit better extra with their teams
[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00]: the next and about a bit bit better of a bond between manager and bruhlankoli 100% and you're
[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01]: dead right that kind of those transactional customer contacts was a cognitive break you know
[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_01]: that was great I didn't have to think and I know everyone is saying other than other than the new
[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_01]: manager standard you know there's a general view isn't there that always good that we get
[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: in rid of them and we're letting our frontline team members deal with more complex tasks I don't
[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_01]: think they're always going to be happy about that unless they make some of those changes that you
[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_00]: just said yeah or you know or at least you have it more synthetic you know you're a little bit
[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_00]: more synthetic and build sort of thing but with my do we have hand head on build a little more
[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_00]: pattern the plans so people have a breather you know so you're not running people at 95% utilization
[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_00]: or you know completely burned them out just be a little bit more sensitive that people if
[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to get sheltered for hard for an hour and you know we've got the wind to come
[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00]: up you know if thinking of you what do you tell these company gas military price to change and
[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_00]: going all the time so we'll get to call the truly get sheltered if that's your week or yeah I was
[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_00]: all without week you need a little bit of a break in there so yeah it is about getting the you
[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_00]: understand everything's got a cost of sorts here at two at but we should eat really a little
[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_00]: more synthetic because the role is getting tougher which means it gets tougher for the team leader
[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_01]: very true so what you guys are doing I think is brilliant and can you just talk through then
[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_01]: what like what would a potential customer get then if they say you know what I want something that
[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_01]: helps my team managers team leaders whatever they call them so I guess it gives again it
[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_00]: gives the the organization sort there will be a lot of confidence that there's going to be a
[00:30:03] [SPEAKER_00]: consistent way of managing okay which I think is very important but also it gives the right levels
[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_00]: of insight to have the right discussions to give the right report now of the back end of that as well
[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously you know it's not you know we collect a lot of debt ring sender go we collect a lot of
[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of what's being accepted what hasn't we can also give the managers their own KPIs
[00:30:27] [SPEAKER_00]: so we can almost set them targets and reward them for doing with that so have you do on
[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_00]: 10 coaching session this week 10 evaluations are you giving out 10 kudos and set thanks to people
[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_00]: we can give managers their own KPIs and their own kind of not scorecard book we can make them
[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_00]: feel as though that they've been rewarded for again some and day a day and day I'll job that can be
[00:30:49] [SPEAKER_00]: quite tough challenge and one day say me so yeah so we can treat then almost the same as a
[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_00]: treatment of frontline guys I reward them for those small incremental improvements and keep
[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_00]: them those guys on trap as well so you know the insight if we when we speak the customers
[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_00]: that we say okay at and probably guarantee that your performance management is like this
[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: then all gentlemen not that head you know managers go ahead they're not engaged in it frontline
[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_00]: guys aren't engaged in it what are you really getting out of it when we start caught my put it
[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_00]: back into the hands where they're all together where they can collaborate and you know build up
[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00]: of incremental gains and reward you know rewards they're you know the days for it we'll put it
[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_00]: only one place you know we don't want managers jump on all over the place and going for one
[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_00]: place for court should one place for evaluations gone elsewhere for performance that's stick
[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_00]: to all in one place and you know give them some value added time but it was that it to be honest
[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_01]: it was illuminating for me and it did maybe slightly annoyed because I thought why wasn't this
[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: round when when I was doing the job because it had everything you needed in one place and
[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_01]: it was a perfect embodiment of that array toe like kind of which I always think applies in
[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_01]: contact centers you know you could be busy all day but you'd be busy in the wrong places
[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and what I loved about central was it shows you where you can have the most impact
[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_01]: and it kind of is telling you are you haven't given that who does to these people for a few
[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_01]: days here's some of the things you might want to do it for and how are you doing against your
[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_01]: coaching numbers what should you be coaching and who should be next and in terms of
[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: knowing how to run my day effectively my week I thought it was perfect and the fact that
[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you know underpinning all of this is like you say this kind of transparency and recognition
[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_01]: because there's nothing worse I think than people that are in a consequence free environment
[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_01]: and those consequences like adjust the out you know my work should have a consequence
[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_01]: you should have recognition you know it should have the offer of support there's nothing
[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_01]: worse and feeling like you're working and your manager doesn't even notice doesn't
[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_01]: interact with you during the day and that's probably more of a problem now with hybrid
[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_00]: and remote than ever before yeah it's sort of how do we how do we gauge the impact of
[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_00]: lung just happen and again it's harder you know if you think about it all probably
[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_00]: the moral school contact center relation still you know obviously still rather than there
[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_00]: where you might have a flaw with maybe 10 teams on the or a pot same hot spongeer
[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_00]: what's on that what's on that wallboard calls Q and all I kind of still generally
[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_00]: you know how much impact in the edge of the level but what we want to show is how much impact
[00:33:40] [SPEAKER_00]: is the manager tapping on the things they can control and the feedback that of hand from
[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_00]: obsmanagers with central as well is it's given them any things that they didn't have previously
[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00]: as well because they were waiting for a report that come out each day they'd have to work through
[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_00]: that you know they've got better things to do and we're thinking of a more than sit you know Martin's
[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_00]: seen improvement in sales of x percent from last week let's give them a cool loss let's get
[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a cool loss from an obsmanager you'd fuck with forward agents you know all them things just
[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_00]: held build up at momentum that everyone knows what's going on but everyone's being
[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_00]: abandoned the right time everyone's got the right action they need to take to inflow
[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: and everyone gets the visibility that they need don't give me that cool dot until you check my
[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_01]: yes yes that's next the two the two didn't go hand in hand very often yeah
[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_01]: we'll show up when you think about some of the and maybe this is like just some of the recent ones
[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_01]: when you started working with companies what are some of the things they're coming to you with
[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_01]: in terms of challenges like why why why are they talking to you what are some of the things that
[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_00]: hope you can do for them yeah so we hear we hear a lot right we've got a number of different
[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_00]: use cases with with sender globs who we've heard said we are seeing as the kind of forwards
[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_00]: experience platform and that includes kind of you know performance learning, coaching,
[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_00]: evaluations, voice of the employee you know gamification and so on but we have got use cases around
[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_00]: how do we help improve that first 90 day attrition that's sort of you know burning our
[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_00]: stout in terms of cost so can we make onboarding a big better you know we don't expect
[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_00]: going back the sort of the you know the person parental consent of the first time whether it's
[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_00]: virtual in a classroom to sit through your hours and hours of PowerPoint going doing
[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_00]: the longer version of trend maybe on all LMS or you know then it's all the stick so how do we use
[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_00]: sort of micro learning competitions, gamification to help make that more fun whether it's you know
[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_00]: getting people through their training quicker because the the knowledge is sticking to
[00:35:58] [SPEAKER_00]: it's at the right rate or they're whether it's getting those peat new commuter grab bait or
[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_00]: quick proficiency sooner because we're not tarb at the one 90% might be 60% this week and 65%
[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_00]: the next and we're building up that confidence and again as the confidence grows the confidence
[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00]: grows is how I always see it with those rules so that's one of our use cases kind of on
[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_00]: born even pre-bordant we've got a customer now who's using sentry gold to give a five kind
[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00]: of getting people through the door on day one wow which which is pretty cool a lot of it is
[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_00]: is around performance so again as well as we've discussed quite a lot kind of the performance
[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_00]: experience but we even we even get customers we are like kind of a lot of learning customers
[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_00]: so have a lot of learning organisations, customers to sit the way that we do things is all
[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: it needs to improve we need to modernize everything's on power quints or on a share point
[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: and the train stands in front of the same classroom every week and delivers you know and
[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_00]: it's not precious by a year it's not really engaged and so how do we how do we help with that so
[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_00]: got a lot of kind of learning use cases on going looking you know can we compliment it
[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_00]: on management solution by using the identification mechanics and the like learning the compliment
[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_00]: that long-performs store but again it's always with in all of the business I'll come right
[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: it all we can't get away from that but it's always with the front line colleague at heart
[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_00]: you know this is a solution built for people it's not like an efficiency-saving solution
[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_00]: you know guess it guess there's an argument if you improve your performance enough the
[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_00]: efficiency savings what that's not generally how we how we approach this you know I think there's
[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of people now going back to what we discussed at the start they think about their employee equally
[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00]: as they do with their customers which you know 25 years ago or just was not the case at all
[00:37:47] [SPEAKER_01]: and I think if they're using your system they would understand their employees better than just
[00:37:54] [SPEAKER_01]: the occasion or law to often survey for sure you're you're getting to see and I guess you get a sense
[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_01]: of when people are using it you mentioned before there's you know peer to peer it's a communication
[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_01]: hub as well in terms of people recognizing each other's work and things like that and the extent
[00:38:13] [SPEAKER_01]: to which that is being utilized and engaged tells you a lot about how engaged people are
[00:38:19] [SPEAKER_00]: in the purpose of the company yeah absolutely and you know on the point of kind of peer
[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_00]: to peer recognition we also have kind of peer to peer knowledge share which are things quite good
[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_00]: you know not like a sort of an electronic suggestion box but kind of you know people being able
[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_00]: to contribute what works for them you know because you've got great learning teams and great
[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_00]: training teams and great core teams all these organizations but the frontline guys know they're
[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of a customer better than anyone so why not let them share that knowledge yeah you know for
[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00]: it's new product if it's you know dealing with vulnerable customers whatever might be let people share
[00:38:56] [SPEAKER_00]: us this works to me wanting to give the try and then you can sort of reward people for sharing that
[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_00]: as well because you don't want just someone sat on all this great knowledge who might have been
[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_00]: there for four or five years getting to share that with with step peers as well and reward them to do
[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_00]: and so I think that's quite crucial and customers also look not that elevate as well and again
[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_00]: as an argument that that ticks all the burden off their learn and tea yeah this is what we're here
[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_00]: and there's some content it's always creating that content for each other in real time
[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_01]: and again I can't help but thinking about those teams that have some of their colleagues working
[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_01]: from home they might not have the benefit of sat next being sat next to the most experienced person
[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_01]: because I know I can remember one place I was at my all of my learning I would point to the lady
[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_01]: that sat next to me being at the contact centre 20 years I must have driven her insane yeah because
[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_01]: how do I do this how do I do that as she's like no do this way do it this way and this gives
[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_01]: them that regardless of where they're located yes absolutely so you've got you know you break
[00:39:57] [SPEAKER_00]: content you're micro learning but you're rewards for doing your quizzes then you've got this
[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_00]: contribution where you can go in and save them and you're almost sort of keep a little like a little
[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00]: pile of ones that work for you it's really really cool and then this was a development that came
[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_00]: from a customer really he must have said I think this would be really great so we put on the
[00:40:17] [SPEAKER_00]: roadmap put it in development and you know customers love us and for you then when you think
[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_01]: about what's what the future might hold what what excites you the most and that can be about the
[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00]: obviously AI still everyone's lips so I think some of the stuff we've got coming down the line with
[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00]: AI and third developments I think is going to continue to revolutionize the experience that
[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_00]: these frontline teams and their managers managers have I guess for me I guess it's still a little bit
[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_00]: up in the air I would like to see how do we get hung long the attrition piece because I do
[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_00]: something that is impacting everyone and again that is impacting not just businesses it's impacting
[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_00]: other colleagues it's impacting a customer because there's a lot of new starters just going through
[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_00]: the the meal all the time so I would like to see how was it I was an industry weekly tell that it's
[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_00]: always been an issue when I don't just use get a get handle on that as an industry in terms of me
[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_00]: personally I like to sit on I've got more plans of go anywhere soon I love what we do I really do
[00:41:27] [SPEAKER_00]: you know when when we got industry events what we do is very unique but I also think what we do
[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_00]: it is just common sense right it's like I always sort of make the joke when I say the customs that
[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_00]: in an ideal world right what the CEO wants and what the agent and the team leader wants to
[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_00]: completely different things and if they were doing what they want they want them to do
[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't be in a job right I'd be working elsewhere we could just bridge that gap
[00:41:59] [SPEAKER_00]: slightly through getting the people board it and I think that's a win-win for my I think that's a win-win
[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_01]: for everyone do you when you were when you were the 17 year old Ian did you think it's still be
[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_01]: in the industry and like international director absolutely not know no I like I absolutely you know
[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: I thought I would sort of pull my finger out and go back to uni and I really did but then like
[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_00]: I got a player that's for going out with having money to go out and we again having a car going you know
[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_00]: to a beaver and music festivals and all the stuff that teenage isn't really 20 year olds kind of
[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_00]: get into and then kind of realize that it wasn't it wasn't a bad industry to get into you I guess it's
[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_00]: getting people through that first year in months now you're getting them to see build them out
[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: of development pathway make it invisible you know we did a thing when I was a planner manager about
[00:42:53] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of getting people to come and sit with us to understand what we did why I believe said
[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_00]: not things why with those scumbags in the corner that said not every request and I think
[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_00]: context and does need to do that a bit more is kind of educate their frontline colleagues about
[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_00]: what else is possible in that business or in the industry in general and I think some of the stuff
[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_00]: that you're doing with sort the TV the community I think is getting people to think a little bit
[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_00]: wider than just a day a roll which I think we need to do to keep peaking the industry but
[00:43:25] [SPEAKER_00]: a development path where is is crucial but you know if you stick around in Angones tying
[00:43:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you know I always talk about in central we can kind of have content that people could enroll in
[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_00]: so if you stick around and you get with certain level which is you know you do a good job over
[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_00]: a period of time you can enroll a be a TV later you can all learn about workforce management
[00:43:45] [SPEAKER_00]: I'm moving into quality role but just setting that out and giving people that option I thought
[00:43:50] [SPEAKER_00]: think there's not a great way of always doing that I love that I completely agree because I think
[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_01]: when people are joining the industry entry operations kind of level they're not thinking about
[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: the future and they don't know they don't know the possibilities that exist within our industry
[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_01]: and it's getting that in their heads and helping them, helping them see it and finding the
[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_01]: things like for you it was you know planning someone said saw something in you that said
[00:44:23] [SPEAKER_01]: let's do, let's do planning you'd get it you know and and think about those opportunities you know
[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_01]: you went to you went abroad and worked abroad early on very early on you know these are things
[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_01]: that you don't get if you will not have often I guess but you don't get if you've gone
[00:44:39] [SPEAKER_01]: in retail or some of the other places that are kind of taken are talem you know we you
[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_01]: I completely agree and that kind of get them on a path that shows them what's possible as quickly
[00:44:51] [SPEAKER_00]: as possible yeah but we'll get like help them help them to care as well so think if they see
[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_00]: purpose and worth what they're doing in a so true you know they might then kind of own
[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00]: say well I feel really valued and I'm kind of bought in this person I work with these people I
[00:45:09] [SPEAKER_00]: work for I will hang around and I will see you know what the next six full souls
[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_01]: well I'm glad 17 year old Ian decided to stay in the industry I know many many people will be
[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_01]: as well for people that want to like I'm I'm openly say I was blown away by seeing what you guys
[00:45:28] [SPEAKER_01]: offer how can people carry on this conversation and just kind of get to see visually as well from
[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_00]: you yes obviously you know we've got a lot of great stuff on our website there's a lot
[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_00]: of the video walks throughs and demos also you know they can just reach out to me if they need
[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_00]: to what on LinkedIn or you know if we can maybe share my email address and we happen to have you
[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_00]: are having another conversation with people we're also a lot of events so you know we'll be
[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_00]: you know we attend the forum events we'll be up the seats you have here we're doing our
[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_00]: own first big game next week which we're going to be a part of which is fantastic where we're
[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_00]: going to have you know people from the industry people from the forum replicant yourself
[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_00]: talking about all of these things that have discussed today so we you know we showcase a little bit
[00:46:12] [SPEAKER_00]: of what we do there as well but yeah I mean I'll just you know LinkedIn we've got a lot of stuff
[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_00]: on there there's so many positive reasons kind of in for what we do but again you know it's always
[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_00]: have a chat with someone and just you know see what that thing going to because no one's impressed
[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_00]: with technology if you don't talk a bit you know it's like you could you know let this is
[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_00]: demo all these functions on a talent of all these features and you could be taught
[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_00]: to someone who doesn't really care about what is you showing them so yeah a conversation
[00:46:41] [SPEAKER_00]: is five teneter conversations I was great when I'm all the happy to be at the reach out to me
[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_01]: for that and I'm really looking forward to our event next week I think would it be okay if I just
[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_01]: play them this podcast yeah yeah let's do that and then I think that would be our sort of
[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_01]: stop I don't in chapel thanks very much for coming on and please do carry on the great work my friend
[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_01]: griss thank you