#190 Sandra Thompson on Emotional Intelligence - Part 2

[00:00:02] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Get Out of Wrap. I promised you part 2 with the amazing soundtrack Thompson

[00:00:10] And here we are ready to delve further into emotional intelligence that it was such a great episode so much great feedback

[00:00:20] We've spun it round quickly and here we are again, and it's an auspicious day for Get Out of Wrap today

[00:00:27] We are now five years the podcast has been going so thanks to everyone for all your support

[00:00:33] And listening and Sandra welcome again

[00:00:36] Thank you now just to give you the full effect of

[00:00:41] Wow look at that five years this is this is other brands are available sold from weight rows

[00:00:49] So I'm inviting you to blow the candles out you're so kind here we go ready

[00:00:55] Ready, ready, ready, ready, go

[00:00:57] My trusty assistant will now go and distribute the cake

[00:01:04] Thank you very much that is a lovely lovely touch

[00:01:08] Thank you. Well, do you know when I saw this morning on LinkedIn that you were five years older we were doing this stuff

[00:01:16] I just thought you know that would be an excellent so congratulations on five years

[00:01:20] It's kind of blown my mind a little bit when you if I think back to what's changed in that

[00:01:27] five years I guess the most point you at one is my first guest was me reluctantly just to let me test

[00:01:37] Recording really but she was hilarious and now she's working with me one day a week in she was 12 then

[00:01:44] 17 now and I think for all of us

[00:01:47] You know that period 2019 to now has been so bizarre predominantly because of the pandemic

[00:01:54] It's I think it's been our concept of time it seems like only yesterday I was doing the first one and

[00:02:03] Yeah, very you know even from if he fast forward to your first one a week or so ago

[00:02:11] I came away from that buzzing. I just learned so much and so many lovely messages

[00:02:16] What you shared has helped people and that's all I ever wanted to do was to give people a platform. I know are amazing

[00:02:24] And and to share and for all of us to kind of grow so yeah, very very special in the cake was a lovely touch

[00:02:32] I would put it in the post to you but I have a funny feeling that Hugo will get to it first and that would be bad news because it's chocolate

[00:02:39] Yes, so

[00:02:41] Feel free

[00:02:43] So

[00:02:44] Where shall we pick up then on emotion intelligence?

[00:02:48] So let's I wonder if there are any comments or any questions that anyone raised with you that we might cover off first of what you think

[00:02:56] Yeah, that's a great shout actually one of the things

[00:03:00] Came up in the team leader community and people loved it by the way, but one of the things that came up

[00:03:06] I could absolutely relate to and that was

[00:03:09] I can distinctly remember

[00:03:13] It wasn't necessarily when I was a team leader because I was in my team, you know and I'd like to think I was quite good at sensing how people were and

[00:03:23] We didn't have the terminology emotional intelligence but I'd like to think that I was a good people person's unsensitive to

[00:03:32] Feelings or even unspoken stuff is only when I became a contact center manager responsible for team leaders

[00:03:40] But I noticed

[00:03:42] Not many but a couple of my leaders sometimes in their interactions are with winds

[00:03:46] Because they just felt so clunky and maybe a bit harsh and they weren't those people, they weren't that type of person just how they were communicating with their team

[00:03:56] Well a bit clunky and one of the and it relates to this question that came up in the community was

[00:04:03] How if you don't feel that you naturally possess that kind of some of the aspects of a good foundation of emotional intelligence

[00:04:13] How can you how can you get better at it, you know, and I guess even asking that question demonstrates that they've got self self awareness

[00:04:23] That's right, but where would people and you gave some great resources on the end of part one

[00:04:29] But what would you say to people that either they recognize it themselves or perhaps there's people in their teams where you think you know what I'd love to give this person an injection of Sandra and emotional intelligence superpowers

[00:04:42] So I hear what you're saying and I know I agree with you. I think if someone

[00:04:49] And

[00:04:50] Proceed that there's something missing or they're not quite hitting them are the maths phenomenal those people that have absolutely no idea how they're showing up and have absolutely no idea of the consequences of what they do that's a different ball game

[00:05:05] So I think that one of the first things that people can do is to invite feedback and

[00:05:13] I don't think we covered this the last time, but feedback is interesting because depending on who you ask you obviously get their version based on their biases of what they experienced from you

[00:05:29] And so some people might be perfectly comfortable with you being completely blunt and others just are not. And so I think the invitation here is to

[00:05:40] pinpoint a number of different personality types and awesome the same question and it might be

[00:05:47] I was in this meeting on such as such a day, this is how I think I saw how I showed up what was your experience of that

[00:05:56] Which is an open question and it also gives them permission to

[00:06:02] Work out where you're going because there's nothing worse than someone saying could you just give me some feedback because you think in do they think they've done a good job, do they think it's done a bad job but you know so that's a very safe way of kind of spelling out

[00:06:18] What your position is on it and asking people to reflect their experience of you

[00:06:25] And from that you can decide whether that is how you want to show up or not that's one thing

[00:06:32] The second thing which I really love is scenarios so you consciously deciding that if everything goes a bit wobbly how are you going to show up in that moment where everyone around you is panicking

[00:06:49] What would be of service to the people around you and what would make you the most productive so i'm going to give you an exact example

[00:06:57] Worked in the airline industry, I worked in marketing and whenever somebody with which shows i work which is middle into which is now part of which shareways but at the time

[00:07:09] If BA announced something and what would be running around like crazy crazy birds because we were right right what we're going to do we're sort of they sometimes we had absolutely no inkling of what they were going to do

[00:07:20] And those they would I remember distinctly waiting for an instruction because i wasn't very senior at that point and just watching how people responded to that

[00:07:32] They were some I remember very distinctly very calmly very much a fact this is what we're going to do do do do do do do do do do do do and others were

[00:07:41] I mean honestly it's like a Benny Hill show and I know what i prefered because i was clear on what i need to do and so i imagine

[00:07:52] Those people decided how they wanted to show up and they remembered that leaders automatically are a magnet for everyone who works for them when the what sits the fan

[00:08:06] So they consciously decided how they were going to show up and what a surprise they got better productivity so i think the first point is feedback invited be ready for it

[00:08:19] Make your judgement as to whether it's sincere or not that will be kind of you'll get into a habit and understand those people who just got their own agenda and those who are purely there to help you

[00:08:29] And then consciously decide in this scenario if someone's being aggressive in this scenario where it might be conflict in this scenario where we've got to act really fast how do i want to do it and just keep practising because I've been studying emotion telling it's for a long time and i've been a coach for a long time but i still don't get it right

[00:08:54] But i still practice new techniques and sometimes they work sometimes they don't but that's good because we're trying right.

[00:09:03] I love it and just starting with feedback it's such a crucial area isn't it in the and you verbalised it, you verbalised it really well.

[00:09:15] And then leading into those moments of they might not even be crisis but one thing we can be certain of in the contact centre customer experience world is there's going to be hectic moments and they're going to be regular.

[00:09:29] Yeah and perhaps if you've invited feedback you're able to really think about your methodology communication and your presence as a as a leader in those moments like and i was lucky that i had a group of team leaders that were reporting into me at this point that were.

[00:09:48] We had it we had a really nice dynamic that they felt comfortable giving me an asked for feedback just on how best i could.

[00:09:57] How best i could lead them we had a lot of mutual respect and you might not be surprised to know that i sometimes have a tendency to use too many words or.

[00:10:11] Or maybe i like and it to sometimes people want you to go on the m one with a communication and i would take every b road possible very see me very pleasant but wasn't actually getting to the destination so the feedback was you know especially when.

[00:10:31] It's important and that could be both positive and negative we need a bit more clarity and we you know like a lot of places.

[00:10:40] There was a time where i was informed first we're going to need to be restructuring and i can remember their feedback you know they do not want story time with martin and a positive to hinge on things they just want to know what they need to know.

[00:10:56] And i need to give them the space to do it that i'll that'll came about from this feedback.

[00:11:03] You know off not off or we we've given ourselves agency to feed back like that and for some they didn't mind the meandering for others they did not like it at all.

[00:11:14] Yeah, so it's fascinating.

[00:11:17] So, one of the offer up a couple of other things actually and i i talk to businesses about this the formal language for what i'm about to describe is called a psychological contract.

[00:11:30] The everyday language which isn't academic is expectations management so.

[00:11:37] I'm about starting in in another job cricket for so many when i was in the void and my boss is boss took me to on side and said i'd like to have meeting with you about mine and your expectations of each other.

[00:11:53] I'd never had that before and it was utterly brilliant because she basically laid out how she wanted me to show up.

[00:12:01] In my communication with her and when i was generally communicating in generally doing my job these were the things i needed to let her know about she can care about the other stuff because that was fine but these were the things now when you think about relationships.

[00:12:18] Often kind of you go along and you can find things a bit annoying or whatever but if you're quite upfront in a work relationship and say.

[00:12:28] When you do these things it drives the absolute bananas when you do these things i'm going to love it and give exact examples of when it comes to life.

[00:12:39] This is really not rocket science but it saves time it avoids conflict and it means you've got an agreement on how you're going to show up.

[00:12:48] On both sides this is not a boss telling an employee this is what you got to do this is also my turn to say to her.

[00:12:56] Right so i want to be challenged and while i'm at make a face when you give me a really difficult job to do i want to i'm just thinking oh my gosh i'm going to deliver so don't be put off when i make a grivis it's because of this.

[00:13:09] I'm going to explain to you to have my back and if i did a did it if i'm making mistake i'm going to learn i'm not going to do it again but if you chastise me or you you do you you punish me in some way.

[00:13:19] I'm not touching that and i'm not going to be able to do all the great stuff i didn't put it like that because she was very senior but isn't that incredible you're giving out of the person.

[00:13:30] The power and your opportunity to just say it.

[00:13:35] Now of course that assumes that someone has the confidence to do that but it's the leaders job to say i really want to have this conversation with you and i've invited students i've taught to say to their bosses for those in part time work.

[00:13:51] Your boss might be taken aback by the fact that you're introducing this concept and you're saying to them with like to have an expectations conversation they might think who the hell you are but why don't that be incredible because they'll get better performance out of you so psychological contract stroke expectations management it is a beautiful.

[00:14:12] It this is really very reassuring to hear because i guess by accident as i got more experience to move around different teams the first thing maybe the first or second the first thing was try and get to know your team but the very early on i would have a meeting around expectations and that would be i would and i would start with what you could expect from me now.

[00:14:37] If i'd already been working in the company they had a perception of me as i'd like to mess about it was there was it was always fun.

[00:14:47] However, however that within the expectation saying i was able to talk to them and said look we have fun because i've got some like three line whips and i hold my team accountable to them.

[00:15:03] So here's why i expect from you and it wasn't anything out of the norm but it was it was important for me to verbalize it that said if you don't do these things i will not be.

[00:15:15] The Joker i'll be annoyed yeah equally here's what you can expect from me and that was i'm going to champion your career i'm going to make work for blah blah blah and it even got to the point where i would explain about my face.

[00:15:33] So i've got an expressive face.

[00:15:35] Okay.

[00:15:36] So i again because of feedback i got told i would get questioned all the time you annoyed you annoyed and but that is and i got i coined it my thinking face right so i'm not annoyed in the slightest i'm just i'm thinking maybe it's i wasn't always great with the financials and numbers i really had to.

[00:15:58] You know focus on that a lot and it kind of it taxed me but it came across as maybe i looked annoyed.

[00:16:05] Yeah when they were expecting smiles and high five so whatever which is a normal setting and it got to that level and it just made things so much easier when you had that kind of like you said that kind of psychological contract you said like expectations setting so.

[00:16:24] That's right, so i'm here coming from an expert.

[00:16:26] Yeah well because it happened to me and i thought it was refreshing it it really i pass it on and i think when we relate that to emotional intelligence this is self management this is the opportunity to get your emotions in check to balance them because ultimately.

[00:16:47] And this you've invested a whole bunch of time and you've you've really had a proper conversation with me you don't know what i'm like you don't know whether i've had a bad experience in this one thing.

[00:17:00] And that's why when you ask me to do that thing you're not going to know the reason why i'm suddenly avoiding it or procrastinating or angry that you've given it to me and so when humans are a bit up for it when they are able to share.

[00:17:15] It means that both humans are managing proactively how they show up is you know and and the great thing about that is.

[00:17:25] Another one of the competencies is called positive outlook now this is all about resilience this is about is the it's the work of part of the work.

[00:17:35] Of Martin Seligman that also brought this to life which was around you know if you are able to think positively so if you feel comfortable if you're confident then you're hopeful so you're going to bounce back quicker.

[00:17:51] If you are in that state some people take a lot longer to bounce back they will bounce back eventually but it takes them a long time so he did a whole bunch of research with the US army for memory.

[00:18:04] And that's also what you want so when you get feedback and you don't feel too brilliant about it knowing that someone has got your back knowing that they're there your cheerleader they want you to progress.

[00:18:18] Should mean you have higher positive outlook which also means you brush yourself down and then you go again so.

[00:18:28] When you're practicing emotional self awareness that you're aware of your emotions.

[00:18:34] The beautiful thing about the self management bit is all about choice.

[00:18:43] You choose how you show up you choose how you react.

[00:18:48] Now of course I can't speak for every single scenario but the majority of cases.

[00:18:54] If we caused for a minute and just let our amygdala so I may have said last time there's a chip in the middle of your brain goes for that yeah so if you choose to regulate your breathing.

[00:19:10] Take a moment you're not from your chair ever walk around go into something else going against the cup of tea glass water whatever is breathe.

[00:19:21] Then you are better in making a more productive and positive response to something.

[00:19:30] There's a I've come from it's last time but there's an amazing book called Man Search for Meaning and it's all about a guy of gentleman's experience of something quite horrific but he talks about this space and how humans.

[00:19:44] As one species have the choice between stimulus and response and if we do that work there again when you are receiving feedback you might flip your beans and go that is not how I meant to be or I knew must have been talking about someone else.

[00:20:03] Or use this in patiently and you wait for them to finish and you thank them and then you go away and process it and then when you've processed it you might join awesome some more questions.

[00:20:13] But if you react really badly to that feedback chances are when you ask the next time they're going to say I don't think so or there'll be very different in how they give you feedback which is not what you want.

[00:20:28] I love this concept of this the.

[00:20:32] The stimulus and the response and working with yourself on making sure that that time is adequate for you to be able to.

[00:20:43] Feel more confident hopeful resilient and.

[00:20:47] I wonder from your point of view then if you're leading someone who.

[00:20:54] You know has a tight literally no.

[00:20:59] Gap between the two.

[00:21:02] And you know that you know that make you tentative about I've got to deliver some.

[00:21:09] Feedback or potentially challenging information to this team member and I know that they're going to react how best to manage that.

[00:21:18] It's a great question and.

[00:21:21] I've got some really hard right practical advice so when I did manage people I would say we're going to have a conversation.

[00:21:31] I'm going to give you some information.

[00:21:34] This information is meant with great intention and this is what we're going to do I'm going to give you this piece of information and then I'm going to ask you.

[00:21:44] To wait.

[00:21:50] You can either leave the room and come back in five minutes you can sit quietly breathe.

[00:21:56] You can make a few notes on your pad you can count to 20.

[00:22:01] But we need a gap because the I know that where your brain works is the same as how my brain works things me around really quickly and you're just going to need a bit of time to process it.

[00:22:12] How do you feel about that.

[00:22:14] Well, it's what you're going to tell me or but but but whatever it might be.

[00:22:18] Well, I need you to promise me that that's what we're going to do.

[00:22:22] And this is the new approach that I'm trying let's let's try it out. Let's see what happens but there's going to be a much better result when we follow these steps.

[00:22:32] Then you deliver it and I'll say I've finished giving you that feedback now as your invitation to go and ever walk going get company come back sit here for 20 second whatever you want to do.

[00:22:44] That might work with some personality types it might not work with others.

[00:22:49] Another approach you might take is.

[00:22:53] Inviting them to go back to the scene that you are going to give them feedback about and you're inviting them to assess how they thought it went or what they observed and they may come up with something or you as two or point they have absolutely no self.

[00:23:13] And then they describe it so they're there they can imagine that time and then you say okay now I'm going to give you my perception of what I think happened.

[00:23:27] And I'd like you to respond to that when you're ready.

[00:23:32] But this needs to be a careful conversation because we both want we both want you to do even better because I know that it's not going to be a good thing.

[00:23:43] And I'm not going to say that you're not going to be a good person because I've seen you do do do do do do do do which have been fantastic.

[00:23:51] So again, you're not saying your rubbish and blah blah blah.

[00:23:56] You're reminding them that they do really great stuff and the final point to this which isn't what you'd say to them is we are not our behavior.

[00:24:05] I'll behave you as a result of the whole bunch of stuff that goes on with us. So as I've said one you spent out exactly what you're going to talk about you're inviting to pause second you ask them to relive it and then you offer up the thing but making the point that they do so many things that are great.

[00:24:22] This is an opportunity to grow as we are going to work it out so you don't put them out. It is not like you're hanging the match of dry does that make sense.

[00:24:32] Oh, it does I wish I'd had these techniques managing directly in contact centers because I can remember one great member of the team I say great real character but no fuse it wasn't even a short fuse it was no fuse and some of the behaviours that resulted in.

[00:24:52] As the me leading hate chart it was that it was you know we were we were progressing down we were on a formal route and we were going to a meeting.

[00:25:04] And the hate chart manager who was coming with me she said oh you're wearing normal clothes I said yeah and she said I thought you would have come in with a suit of armor.

[00:25:16] And it was because we the pattern that would happen would be big you know deliver what we had to deliver.

[00:25:27] Trying to have a conversation about it but it was just lost in a big explosion then some time would pass and then the team member would come back afterwards when they had come down so it's like they were the.

[00:25:40] The risk you know the thinking time was in the wrong place to come back afterwards and say I'm sorry.

[00:25:48] Now I need to you know and at that point you could start you could start to talk about.

[00:25:53] Hey look you know they're just the behaviours and things and where where where you have this in your mind is a priority it's either an indication that there's other things going on because it really doesn't warrant.

[00:26:05] The response to be so extreme but these aren't behaviours that we can live with and just keep repeating now that did have that did have some impact but I wish I'd thought about that kind of delivery.

[00:26:20] So you've got this package of information you know the response from the person how you that in itself is a little coaching session right there.

[00:26:29] So let me just understand did this person repeatedly behave in a way that was quite right.

[00:26:39] Yeah because that it was kind of like a cyclical that they would be getting in saying getting in trouble makes it is too black and white but you know there would be.

[00:26:50] Trigger points whether that was lateness or behaviour or performance so there would always be something however.

[00:26:59] What a wonderful human being it's like you say your behaviour is not the person that's right so.

[00:27:04] So we it was a great culture so it was very much about working with everyone and trying to help everyone get better but what that meant was it was hard work.

[00:27:15] So so here I hear what you're saying I think the final thing to offer up then is when the calm human is thoughtful and funny or not funny but thoughtful and consider it in all that kind of great stuff.

[00:27:31] They will they will feel a sense of.

[00:27:36] Response to ability with what I'm about to tell you so and I think a lot of people have started using this or a version of this so the situation.

[00:27:46] The behaviour but then the impact and you may have used this but not realize that it was a model that you were following through so person A is on the phone to a customer and.

[00:27:57] Swers at them so first of all at this time you're on a phone to the customer behaviour you swore at them which we don't have a policy for the impact is your peers are shocked and put off their call.

[00:28:13] The customer is now going to escalate that quite rightly and this is the impact it's having on the company.

[00:28:21] So this act has a massive ripple effect.

[00:28:27] What can we do to ensure that doesn't happen again?

[00:28:32] So I think again you know if that doesn't work and I know we know that when someone's triggered they're not thinking logically but even giving them some kind of cure or an anchor.

[00:28:47] So if you gave them something that could sit on their desk, which is like a ball cano, you know, which is a model of a volcano which might be Lego the next time someone winds you right up please grab the volt the volcano Lego and just stop for a minute.

[00:29:05] Because that volcano Lego is going to take you back to the conversation we've had about the impact of what you do.

[00:29:13] You do need some of these anchors to take them back to the conversation because otherwise they're seeing red and memory.

[00:29:21] The horses bolted it's not see it's going to technically blind.

[00:29:25] You got it in one yeah that's right and so these techniques of self management so.

[00:29:30] The thing receiving feedback choosing what is helpful to you that stimulus and response and reflection, you know as a team.

[00:29:43] Perhaps team leaders might have a session where they're feeding back all the amazing stuff that people have done remembering that recognition is so important and I know so many content centers do this so incredibly well.

[00:29:58] But to have it's just even five seven minutes super quick high energy related that the positive reinforcement is as you know you know far more significant for humans than the continual reprimand it leads to a lack of psychological safety and that's a slippery slidey slope.

[00:30:22] It's interesting you said something then about reflection I was going to ask your take on this so we just over ten years ago but I worked in Turkey in several contact centers in Istanbul.

[00:30:35] And also in the east of Turkey the majority of the ones I went to something struck me a strange on the agents desks and that was a high proportion of them had mirrors.

[00:30:47] And I asked one of the contacts and leaders in one of them that I was in doing some work with them on a on a project and he said it's surprising how they might not look at it every day or they do because but just not from a work when it would just to see if they're looking okay.

[00:31:07] We said it's surprising how you if you prompt someone to look at themselves when there may be losing their temple with a customer.

[00:31:16] It stops it stops them or it comes them down because they don't like how they look wow when they're being angry it's interested in that.

[00:31:25] That is that is interesting and I have never heard that I've never heard that before that's a great idea the other thing you could do and I say this I say this lightly because I know it works but some people on that listen to this I will get a lie if you put a pencil in your mouth.

[00:31:48] It forces you to green.

[00:31:51] Have you heard that one before?

[00:31:54] There you go.

[00:31:56] And when you're greening because the incredible number of muscles that we've got in our mouths.

[00:32:02] The way what what studies have said is that because you're greening it full was your brain to calm down a bit now try that technique myself because I'm too busy wanting to throw them.

[00:32:14] It's old not stick one in my mouth but hey you know trying anything.

[00:32:20] Everyone everyone's different right?

[00:32:22] Well isn't there a trigger as well linked to that that if you act happy you become happy.

[00:32:28] Tell me a bit more about that because I'm 50 50 on that one.

[00:32:39] So I've read somewhere the happiness is the output so maybe if you're I'd guess a context and there's lots of variables here but if you and to a certain extent I think in leadership roles.

[00:32:56] I can remember being told it was like oh come over the characters name but it's Barbara Windsor when she was in East Enders.

[00:33:02] The my manager said to me, behind when she's not serving in the old way.

[00:33:09] There's all hell breaking loose but the moment she steps to the bar and she's doing a job she's I love what can I get you you know and it's all so there's an element you know that was kind of shared with me as a young leader about.

[00:33:22] You ever responsibility to behave and show up in a certain way when you're leading your team.

[00:33:28] Even even if you're not feeling it yourself and it was that but then again this part was quite recent that I read.

[00:33:36] And I have to find it but you.

[00:33:41] Standing standing a bit taller trying to smile a bit trying to smile a bit more and that just by those acts you will feel happier so you might not have started that way but the the acts of happiness then lead to real happiness.

[00:34:01] So I like you I'm not kind of.

[00:34:05] Holy convinced but.

[00:34:07] So so I'm going to respond to that in a number of ways the first thing it is when people fake happiness.

[00:34:16] In company quite a lot of people are going to spot it because we're wired to be high percentage of to that sort of stuff.

[00:34:23] So I think that I'd rather get you to techniques that might shake off something not nice.

[00:34:30] So I got to talk this a little while ago actually which I thought was brilliant so imagine your Isabella.

[00:34:37] Zebra for those that are joining us from the States and you have a proper shake I mean you might want to do that in private but literally you shake you're moving around your shaking will you body.

[00:34:48] And that move things around and we can see when dogs are really stressed and they want to get into the next phase they got a good old shake.

[00:34:57] Zebra is when they've been almost hunted they have a shake and then they're back to drinking the water lovely lovely and I think that there's definitely something about moving the hormones the chemicals on which will be more effective than telling yourself.

[00:35:13] Okay yeah happy. The second thing is gratitude and this is definitely it's been proven to top Trump anxiety but I know that when I write gratitude diary or even write 10 things now that you're grateful for it.

[00:35:36] It does move me in a way of calm resolve and then I'm ready to feel more happy so it's not the happiness bit but it's definitely taking out a bit of the way.

[00:35:48] So spending even two minutes what are you grateful for the tiniest acts the tiniest things.

[00:35:57] I'm finding me some candles do you know I'm grateful for the fact that I've got a sidekick I'm grateful for the fact that I managed to make this on time I'm grateful for the fact that the sun has been shining today.

[00:36:11] They can be the tiniest of things I'm grateful for the bus turned up and I'm grateful that it didn't drive in the puddle writing front and me because otherwise I might see would it turn into something brown.

[00:36:21] Genonemy you can have one with this but gratitude will always top Trump anxiety and so I'm not sure about the whole faking it bit but I do think that being as zebra and writing some lists of things definitely will take you on the right course.

[00:36:37] And I think they're great tips to give people that they can implement with their team straight away.

[00:36:42] I'm sure those that are listening that have worked in a sales part of contact centers would often have I know I would do it myself we would have periods where we we stood up and if you know it's your team mood was a bit low and maybe we hadn't got so many sales in a certain period.

[00:37:01] We all just stood up what we said right everyone stand up no one sitting down we might throw a ball around and you know it definitely definitely had that.

[00:37:11] Zebra effects I love the zebra one and the gratitude one I noticed that even this morning you know what it's like when you're.

[00:37:18] You're carrying a lone pharaoh in the business world your pharaoh rather you are hit by all kinds of you think you're going to have an opportunity to work with someone then it's taken away the last minute so you're a bit low but writing the post this morning about five years and.

[00:37:35] You know just friendships I've made some of the lovely messages people said you know just being able to really live me as first that they're all recording.

[00:37:47] I'm so grateful that I'm part of this you know it instantly I've this morning you know I was like yeah this is great I'm loving it.

[00:37:57] Yeah and again they might not be work related they might be home related they might be they're personal to you honestly and with some people I've coached in the past my invitation to them is to write at the end of the day.

[00:38:15] And they'll say I just two minutes just do two minutes and then I'll speech them after that session and they'll say I spent twenty minutes because honestly I completely lost all what's the world I'm looking for.

[00:38:30] They just weren't present enough to really think about all of the glorious things that had happened I mean they were having a terrible time.

[00:38:40] All of these glorious things.

[00:38:43] That's it I know well wake up tomorrow they'll the old toxins will be released and that'll be all lovely and I'm ready to go because that little be ready for you in the morning to remind you yet again.

[00:38:58] Is it important to commit it to write it to commit to either writing it or typing it.

[00:39:04] So it depends which academic paper you read the one that I really liked is writing rather than typing because apparently.

[00:39:18] The process of you considering the words because you will consider what you're going to write and then the message is going down your hand and you write the thing down the texture of putting something to paper apparently is more meaningful than you typing it.

[00:39:34] And I don't I haven't read enough papers to say well actually when we wait up it's all rubbish because you think we're actually if I'm thinking it then I'm going to type it but there's something about the the actual act of writing out the words on paper that does create more meaning and greater purpose in that.

[00:39:59] Now you said that I'm going to have to get out.

[00:40:01] Well, I just wanted as well whether it's the it's the action so you don't just say to your team member I want you to spend a couple of minutes thinking about the things that you're grateful for they've got to it's better to.

[00:40:14] I want you to write them out that's it even if it's only two even if it's only two I can bet your 50 pounds that they'll be thinking about it for the rest of the day in little moments and it won't leave them.

[00:40:29] Honestly and I think you know with some of the people that I've met I would give them a book so again, you know they might not have the incline or the or the resources to invest in something that's decent to writing because that's another part of the processes you've got a really beautiful thing that you're writing in.

[00:40:48] And so when I went so a couple of weeks ago I went and did a session with a group of people and I got them lovely books with their names on them they're all personalized and stuff and so again it's that.

[00:41:03] I'm investing in myself this is a thing and I'm going to do it so there's all sorts of techniques that people can just try it might not be for them if they give it a go that's growth mindset.

[00:41:17] I love it and I'm very very grateful both for getting to know you and listening to you talk I'm very grateful for the lovely touch of the of the cake.

[00:41:29] And perhaps then because we've done this again, we need to have a part three.

[00:41:35] That's my girl there'll be no cake that time because I really do I really have to start getting strict so I can achieve the the highest that you've got to with your feet is regime no more chocolate maybe a banana or an apple or something.

[00:41:50] It's been splendid I really I love your energy I love your positivity your your a force to reckon with but in that kind of gentle playful slightly inpatient or cultural what you're going to get kind of way and that's really it's a joy in this industry so thank you for having me on again.

[00:42:10] Well straight back out you.

[00:42:12] There was that exactly yes for then part three.

[00:42:15] There's see what your listeners say if you're listening to say I've got more questions or they say don't care or they can cry.

[00:42:23] Let's see let the public vote.

[00:42:26] Yes brilliant so I'm just thank you so much again for coming on of course and thank you for having me and have a great rest of your fifth birthday.

[00:42:35] I will thank you very much all the best.