The Break Room - a Linkedin Live Audio event

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello and welcome to The Break Room.

[00:00:04] [SPEAKER_02]: A Live Linkedin Audio event, bought to you by Get Out of Wrap.

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_02]: This is what the fourth one of these I've done, like any kind of break room.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_02]: You come in and we can talk pretty much.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, any...we've covered a whole range of subjects doing this in the past.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: One of the things I was thinking about leading up to this event is...

[00:00:33] [SPEAKER_02]: ...like you.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I spent a lot of time on LinkedIn, looking at all of the new things that are coming in how technology

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: is changing our industry for the better and also how we...

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: ...customers.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I did wonder if you went back to when I was on the phone's the mid-90s

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and you took me in a time machine to now.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: How different would things be?

[00:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And David had read it, it was a little bit of a good to see both.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that was my thought really around.

[00:01:12] [SPEAKER_02]: How different are things today than 20 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, four

[00:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: the people that are actually doing the job.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So agents that come in to our industry right now,

[00:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: how different is it for them in terms of how they join when they start,

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_02]: what their training looks like and that gets more importantly,

[00:01:40] [SPEAKER_02]: what is the actual job like?

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And...

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the more this hasn't changed,

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: then has changed.

[00:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I think customer requirements have definitely got harder.

[00:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's say they are more challenging,

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: their demands for a better service are probably more increased

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're less likely to...

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_02]: ...impact and demonstrate too much forgiveness.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that did change a little bit during the pandemic

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: when we were all in it together and people were quite happy to...

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: ...wait because they knew that we were doing our best,

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_02]: put our key processes together.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: In terms of what has actually changed,

[00:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: how much has changed for people on the phones?

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And Sandra and Scar, hello, good to see you both.

[00:02:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to maybe chat about how industry

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and for the people on the phones,

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: how much has actually changed.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Has, you know, technology has got better,

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_02]: but even this morning I was talking to someone about how

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: the majority of teams were not the majority,

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: but still a significant proportion of teams are using Excel

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_02]: for WFM, something's got to know you are an expert.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we take that budget, I just wonder about agents.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't get me wrong, I'm no ladae.

[00:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I love the fact that we are at the forefront of

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the application of AI, especially in how technologies making,

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: our understanding of our work and its making as more efficient,

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but for your agent on the phones today,

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: how much different is it to 10 years ago, five years ago, 20 years ago?

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd love to get your views.

[00:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: No, Sandra or Scar, if you want to chip in here with any thoughts,

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: do you think it is change significantly or fundamentally,

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: is it still the same?

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Have we got better for example, pat training people

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_02]: in the necessary communication skills that they're going to need?

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the key developments over the last decade has been

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: our understanding of emotional intelligence and how our leaders are

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: becoming better at recognizing that that is a key faster

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to their leadership skills.

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Scott, I'm going to get you into talks, got Williams, here we go.

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_03]: The one we're zooming.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Hello, how are you doing?

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_03]: Good afternoon.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks, sorry, I'm a mumble bar today and so on.

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_03]: No problem.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Can't yes prompt, yeah, so I think,

[00:04:49] [SPEAKER_03]: for me, I think the context of gender intelligence has passed

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_03]: several years ago, from the eyes of the business,

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_03]: from a customer business to a benefit in the business.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a result.

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_03]: The average context of age and the benefit of

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_03]: from a great romantic best month in our

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_03]: in terms of quality and training and development and retention

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_03]: than they were many years ago.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: And there could be the technologists available from these

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_03]: just to speak analytics, I mean, to tone and all the

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_03]: things like that.

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_03]: It's something more about what was available.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_03]: You guys are going to just have, you know, I remember when I started

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_03]: 30, I thought there was someone set up,

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_03]: poured in or didn't start next to you whether this

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_03]: was a literature headset, listening to your call.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_03]: Now, in terms of the development

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_03]: of the coaching and mental health support, just

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_03]: everything was available from the industry,

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_03]: where it was usable.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's it's league, so it from everywhere.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: That's great to hear Scott, isn't it?

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that you've just very, very eloquently explained

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_02]: some of the key differences that have now come about for

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_02]: agents.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think you hit the nail on the head right at the

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: companies have started to see them as customer advocates

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: rather than, you know, necessary.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's kind of our, we need, we're going to need a hundred

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_02]: people here to deal with the customer contacts rather than

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: thinking, you know, what if we train and support these guys?

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_02]: They could absolutely drive our customer retention

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and customer loyalty and make them customer

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: advocates, but to do that, it needs all of the things that you've just

[00:06:36] [SPEAKER_02]: listed and, you know, certainly from my own experience that

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: like you say, bought back memories of a splitter headset

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: thinking what is this, is this my training?

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Someone just circulating at me wildly.

[00:06:54] [SPEAKER_03]: I yeah, and I remember the days of someone

[00:06:55] [SPEAKER_03]: come over on call this income over to the headset and then we'd go to the

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_03]: because the ones that you've released out last, we hadn't returned

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_03]: yet and so that seemed to make such a long time ago, but it was on

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_03]: the, you know, a much of a year ago.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Do you think this is also being reflected in how

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: team members perceive themselves?

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I, I've kind of shied away a lot from the

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_02]: term agent because it was often preface with just an agent, just an

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: agent. Do you think we,

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: didn't really speak in people that held in high regard?

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it was. I think in berries, I think

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_03]: can't branch, you know, we can't tie everyone with the same rust

[00:07:44] [SPEAKER_03]: you will have the people that would come into work

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_03]: or play for a job on text and under them, and if they perceive themselves

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_03]: as an employee as a lover and for any of the others who,

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, I know people who have been in customer

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_03]: face of roles for years because they love what they do,

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, they've got no interest in going to team manager and come

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_03]: like that because they're in trying to make some contact.

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I've seen a ship to last few years from

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_03]: it's been a job to people who have joined

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_03]: a contacts and a virus. I do, in terms of, I mean, that rule myself,

[00:08:21] [SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people are aware, no-in joins a contact send that's trying

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_03]: to think for a career. I think a lot of people have found

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Koreans through that and I think we're at that the time now, especially with,

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_03]: you know, your network and you know, your podcast and things like that

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_03]: where people have become more aware of it as an industry of choice.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think things are, things are changing things and

[00:08:50] [SPEAKER_03]: obviously I don't know how AI has had to impact that because

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_03]: no, I would imagine it's going to take a lot of

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_03]: administrative tasks away from the data they do as a contact sender

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: agent. Yeah, but I think that needs to, I think

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_03]: it's got happens then in the street, I mean, business needs to

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_03]: understand that there's no longer agents, they are more

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_03]: with more complicated queries than them before us, there's no longer

[00:09:19] [SPEAKER_03]: to feed. I mean, I'll deal with with complex queries and work is there.

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I think great point and I'm very good to see you and a and Darren and

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Sardre, if you want to jump in as well please just raise your hand, there's

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_02]: a little thing you can do on your profile where you can raise your hand.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_02]: But Scott, just to touch on that, that what you were talking about there is

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: is really interesting that the it's the culture and environment then

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02]: that can lead to people kind of going, you know what I really like it.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm well looked after my I'm supported from a mental health point of view.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm supported from a personal development point of view

[00:10:08] [SPEAKER_02]: we can get on to pay in a bit. But if those other things are right, you know,

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: naturally you've got your teammates around you, especially if you're

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: back in a physical building now and I think we started to see a shift back from

[00:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: remote to hybrid certainly but if not hybrid then the seems to be

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: seem to be seeing a lot more contact centers bringing people back even if it's just for a

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: number of days per week but those are the things that are important they certainly

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: were important to me. You know I loved being around my teammates that that was the thing

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: kept me in the industry. I know I should probably say oh it's really nice to help customers

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: but that wasn't necessarily the case for me it was more about the camaraderie and the

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: speeder core and just the fun from people around me and Darren let me add you in now

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_04]: you should they go Darren. Hello guys can you hear how I got my spare headset on?

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah we can. Hi guys I'm really good in Darren Robinson, director of all things

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02]: here because I thank you for joining me. I loved being a LinkedIn and popped up as a

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_04]: old brilliant and it would be a nice lunch time lunch time listening to guys timing.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I think we're just creating what Scott said is well about the guy and taking

[00:11:47] [SPEAKER_04]: from the contact center and how is the agent? In my opinion it's good and more positive

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_04]: because it will help just time spent on the Boris task. So what do you look at how I generated

[00:12:02] [SPEAKER_04]: applications going to your likes they post calls and wrap up? It just be a sing-up for them

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_04]: and it allows things kind of focus on having things career one or train you making sure that

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_04]: it's exactly the conversations and then the music is all to the next point so then obviously

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_04]: it's starting to try to make 10 minutes fursy right down updating and see our answers.

[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_04]: I think it's a good thing and I think that's where we can talk about what you said about

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_04]: the work force of I mean I think it's going to be essential because it's just going to help them

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_04]: get gawled the jolt so much better and that's a lot of them seeing something.

[00:12:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a it's a really good shout out I have to say I don't mind admitting

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I was an agent would sometimes stay in wrap a bit too long on purpose hence the name of the

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: with the transactional stuff being picked up by AI agents will get more interesting let's say

[00:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: customer contact do you think with that kind of say time that there's going to be

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_02]: the more progressive contact centers that will say does this therefore mean we can give even

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: more flexibility to our team members working hours.

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah absolutely yes I think it's a lot of stuff where traditionally

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_04]: you have to be on site yet to be there in your kind of environment and often it's all lined up

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_04]: on your desks with you know ideally traditionally you have people supervising you making sure

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_04]: that you're doing your job but with the technology now it's all done around like picking up through

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_04]: picking up through the analytics and you know whether or not the agent's doing everything correctly

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_04]: if they're handling the customer correctly so forth you don't need to be a you're desk in an

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_04]: office so it helps people have a better well really well being in the life because it's all

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_04]: it's what I've been seeing a different time as the day it's safe and coming into the morning

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_04]: they have two hours traffic then saves a lunch time it saves coming home you can actually sprint

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_04]: you can't work for management through days opening up larger times chaos but then also

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_04]: doesn't affect the the agent because they're at home there if they're in the office they're

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_04]: in remote and anywhere they want so this is what we got them race the technology which is coming

[00:14:24] [SPEAKER_03]: all around a yard therefore so I think one more thing as well is with AI covered in

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm thinking we'd conduct the administrative duties and the things to the speed of time

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_03]: personally that we've heard the fact of a very content center agent is going to be higher

[00:14:42] [SPEAKER_03]: and as a result retention it's going to be approximately a bit vital because if you've got

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_03]: people in the phones because I think the majority of content centers when someone joins the

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_03]: company they can make the entry level calls and then they develop skills if it's keeping

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_03]: that away then you've spent a lot of time with that one if in some of this game and and retention

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_03]: because if you lose those those you know experience more English, personal experience analysts

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_03]: if you're an important two or two of the companies then it's going to cause a lot of problems

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_03]: so I think this is going to be a very personal retention and trying to retain talent in the next 12

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02]: months that they can also be on. I kind of love that I love that pressure should resolve in real

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: consideration as to what are the motivations for people staying in our industry and feeling

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: valued within their centre you know that kind of fear of losing these skilled operators

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_02]: drives you to go you know what is it is it is it purpose and important to you is it progression

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: what can we do in terms of paying benefits or all the culture or the value add stuff that we're

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: that we're doing because you know make a really interesting point that I think we've always

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: in this industry been looking at patrition and certainly I've been in centers where

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I can remember being a contact centre manager and being within a meeting where our senior

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: leaders were there and the focus very much was not just employing the right number of people

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_02]: but getting them you know speed to competency was a phrase I heard very early on which is you know

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: how quickly can we get them ready what's the stuff that we can give them the is easy to do

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and Darren to your point that kind of if a lot of that stuff is being picked up now

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_02]: through technology and AI it's not going to be as easy to you know you think wouldn't

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_02]: you I guess logically that the speed to competency is going to be if you to to Scotts Point

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're taking someone from scratch asking them to complete more complex tasks it's going to take

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_04]: longer to train them up to that point if I think like this right I think it's going to be quicker

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_04]: or really talking about we're going to talk about the AI technology with the context of

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_04]: the duplication though where we work with you can see it comes out to prompting and the if you look

[00:17:31] [SPEAKER_04]: at how when you first go into a queue you go into your question whether there's voice or chat

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_04]: it picks up all of the main issues first and then direct you through to the correct agent with

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_04]: the correct skill set but the AI takes over that and I actually reason that it gives you prompts within

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_04]: your companies database of knowledge center to help answer the questions for the for the agent answer

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_04]: correctly and if it gets flagged up saying that okay the agent's troubling the supervisor Johnson

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_04]: and takes over the side I actually think it's going to speed up and obviously make the agent a lot

[00:18:06] [SPEAKER_04]: broader in the skill set I mean there's always going to be special in the skill set that's

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_04]: never going to go away in case you're not going to get them up to speed so they can actually

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_04]: so entry calls on D2 the AI will take over and help them with the with the the authors

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_04]: and how to respond with the kind of key points etc. So I think that's all kind of I think it's going

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_04]: to come and blow away this full the kind of traditional way of agent training, agent

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_04]: attrition is you know it's going to become a tech job are they moving forwards or agents in call centers

[00:18:36] [SPEAKER_02]: because the technology is actually in to manage very very interesting. Of course said they will

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_02]: need won't they the aspect of the job that is dealing with human beings and customers

[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's going to be fascinating Dara and Danny good to see you both if you want to join in please

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_02]: just use the icon to raise your hand so Dara and Scott don't know about you guys but I saw on

[00:19:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the news the other day the proposal that it may be that government are considering that you will

[00:19:15] [SPEAKER_02]: have to offer people a four day working week I might have the interpretation of that wrong but

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and it did make me think oh I wonder how that will go down in in our industry what do you think about that

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah I think there's this two of what you're receiving a four day work is all working four days

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_03]: but can pay for five or that's what your contract that I was in four days to certify

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I think the majority of contract centers on the end working now and the ones I've worked in

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_03]: hours over three four or five days have always been something that's available

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_03]: I've worked in the opposite of the way I did you know they've lived off in three times 12

[00:20:05] [SPEAKER_03]: hours here so you know four or ten hours days I think that's always been there I think

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_03]: but this perception of doing a full four days of work for five days to pay that's

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_03]: likely to be a little bit more important when something happens now I agree I agree I

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_04]: think also you could do your five days as in four days but then all with the remote aspect

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_04]: well the flexibility there and the scheduling that you don't say for me is an agent on the

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_04]: Monday I'm happy to start working at some thirty and then a ten o'clock I'm happy to have

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_04]: I was going to the gym or to do my personal stuff and then go back on again after lunch

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_04]: to complete the day so you can actually solve it with a third that because they get more when

[00:20:55] [SPEAKER_04]: they can do their personal stuff during the day even decided they're working because of

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_04]: the way the way remote and hybrid working works and this you look at it scheduling the people

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_04]: do you try days and keep doing Mondays but still there are four days between an hour of work

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_04]: I think that's great and then that sort of comes down to the technology of workforce management

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_04]: but they actually controls and schedules that so everyone who's worked with a wet

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_04]: so I think the four day week is achievable how many percent I think it's a way it's going to go

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_04]: I know why I'm not going to go about it that I think that's the thing you do with all

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I think we just ended in terms of you know from myself my my plan is to have the student support

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_03]: planning to understand how the adoption of this within various industries is going to in

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_03]: fact how a typical distribution because typically the majority of industry is much already been

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_03]: destroyed but they've only been in a far distance as well you know if we're now looking

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_03]: option where it's gone to break the additional limit for an infant life there's no how without

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_03]: parts the man's weak right it's not really no but it's something to them

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_02]: very in and Danny you you joined us what what are your thoughts on this

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_05]: as always Martin's like apologies for my slight tardiness as well we'll forgive you

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_05]: hour hours elbow deep in making it chilly for my teeth looking forward to that that would be

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_05]: what cheese you're if I was on a full day working with it I have a few thoughts on this the first is

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: the way that news is released these days tends to be quite headline heavy clip baiti

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_05]: with very little description of what are the practicalities and what are the impacts of

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_05]: whatever that news headline is and this one is no difference it's an idea that's been kicked around

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: of there are some studies that show the productivity is better the society is better people

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_05]: a mortgation network of one of the ways to do that is this four day week but is it four days for

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: five days pay is it you're now working 10 hours shifts is it and is that that's missing from it

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and then all of us get together and argue over hypothetical our customers or might or might not happen

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_05]: the bottom line is we don't know we don't so I'm not sure I don't have any personal views on it

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I think a lot of these discussions in a similar way to the way discussions around hybrid working

[00:23:29] [SPEAKER_05]: started a couple years ago I'll born a little bit out with place of privilege not everybody can work

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_05]: in fact they or even you know less in a six day week but those HR repeat for those people

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_05]: are very linked in savvy we have the flexibility that would allow us to do 40 hours in four days

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_05]: or flex out so I guess what I'm saying is we don't know the detail we don't know the

[00:23:54] [SPEAKER_05]: new odds we don't actually know what proposal is and actually even if we did know that detail

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_05]: everybody's circumstance is our different not just based on the role they do but based on the life

[00:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: they lead yes good point and it does take me back to something both Scott and Darren

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and yourself have mentioned there I can admit back in the day we would do similar stuff you know

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: it would have people that due to public transport would often arrive not earlier than their shifts

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and some of them said you know I'm happy to I'm happy to jump on and that led to us

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: looking at how do we how do we change their shifts to the fact they are here they they they

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: they're asking to to work we want to make sure we pay them but what does that mean to what we can

[00:24:46] [SPEAKER_02]: do for them on on the flip side of that where on a on a Thursday one of them went to football

[00:24:54] [SPEAKER_02]: training in an eek if you got an earlier bus and we but it took that kind of individual

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: detail and consideration and working with WFM HR and I guess is what we're saying then it's

[00:25:10] [SPEAKER_02]: going to be more of that but where we're going to is even more flexibility for the people

[00:25:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that are within our industry to your points got earlier on because retention is everything and if you

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_02]: can get the balance right for people then happy days but now do take your point a lot of the time

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's kind of where we started the disruption which is if you lived in in land only how different

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: is that to the reality of people that come into our industry for the first time and look at

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the chance to have a four day week there's actually meaning what we can go then and get a part time

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_05]: job and do fill the other day are we all building context centres for a long time and work for a long

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_05]: time to ensure you like me will have seen conversations with frontline advisors senior

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_05]: advisors team leaders about them having a side hustle and is it appropriate is it getting in the way

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_05]: attitudes towards that sort of slowly changing but the roster and some businesses out there that are

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_05]: not comfortable with you having an evening bar job with the somehow that shows some sort of lack

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_05]: loyalty to the day job so this this position of suddenly where we're going to create more of a

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_05]: utopia of a society by having you know a few working days that people can out contribute

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_05]: more to their families or to their local community or whatever I'm not sure everybody's quite

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_05]: ready for that from a mindset point of view because they're still we still see this resilience

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_05]: just to somebody wanting to work on the hand and drop it on three nights away so then we need to

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_05]: know if a new one someone actually means is it is my gut feel. I agree and Kerry good to see you

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: there as well Kerry and Darif you want to jump in you said a word there I watched a small it was a

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: tick-tock it was a guy it's a name of incident this thing he's really good and he was talking about how

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: loyalty he was talking about loyalty in one of his management sessions and there were a mixture of roles in that

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: session some sea sweet level who got quite not agitated but got passionate about how they perceived

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: the generations coming into the his world is all things CX like this but coming into the industry

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and the thing that was thrown in them was they're not loyal they're not loyal like people used to be

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and I just thought and he obviously didn't he picked that apart in terms of what does actually mean

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's interesting that you you kind of came at it the the same way what is loyalty today

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_05]: thinking out loud does loyalty matter well good point you know that people haven't changed for a

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_05]: for a couple of hundred thousand years in terms of how they think what their values are etc so

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_05]: this generational differences doesn't bear up to any sort of scientific scrutiny at all

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_05]: what is different there is the attitudes that people have so yeah attitudes to same

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_05]: sexual relationships is very different to just two generations ago I'm sure in two generations time

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_05]: are attitudes towards things like ADHD will be different attitudes change and at the moment we have

[00:28:48] [SPEAKER_05]: some people have an attitude that is born out of that sort of 1970s 1980s jackwell chess

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_05]: Milton Friedman type mindset of you know it's a job for life and you work hard and everywhere

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_05]: as a meritocracy you just get you head down to show loyalty and you get a gold courage clock at the end

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_05]: but whereas the attitudes of many younger people today is if you can't give me what I need

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_05]: if you can't give me something that I feel passionate about then I'll look elsewhere and I no longer need

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_05]: the kind of survival income because I can supplement my income you know with a 7 close on vintage or

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_05]: opening an only fun to kill so you don't have that same power dynamic between employers that are still

[00:29:30] [SPEAKER_05]: in that 70s 80s mindset and the people that coming through today with an attitude of

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_05]: purposes more important than pay which one of those two applied to you don't mean well obviously I

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_05]: screw about on my own so I think for the purposes very much a difference for me anybody the

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_05]: works for themselves or works in a micro business doesn't do it because they think they're going

[00:29:53] [SPEAKER_05]: to be a millionaire it's a roller coaster that you have to be prepared to ride and that is because

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_05]: you think that what you're doing is going to make a little bit of a difference one well let me

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: let me take this question and hit you with this Kerry as soon as you've joined us straight away

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: in your in the work that you do in recruiting do you still find people that will question

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_02]: somebody who CV shows that they've moved quite a bit maybe one year or two years whatever

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's weirdly enough its locations specifics so in London you expect people to move every

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_00]: two to three five years as clusters are relatively long stint whereas at the north people tend to

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_00]: be in a roller little bit longer sort of more five to seven years potentially per roll but you don't

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_00]: get as many people upset about it unless they've got sort of 12 months here, 12 months there

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_00]: here they're everywhere and I think back I can't speak for pre 2012 which is when I entered

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_00]: the real work forces are as I call it after as an end-in recruitment but loyalty absolutely doesn't

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_00]: pay any more you find that people who move around more frequently are on higher packages than

[00:31:16] [SPEAKER_00]: those that have been with a business for say 15 to 20 years it's very interesting now we

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: would be good to get our daras joining as well but the I can remember hot you know hiring

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_02]: it wasn't bothered when I was looking at a CV it fed being a number of different roles

[00:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: it led to something to talk about and you got an idea of what what was that person looking for why

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_02]: did they leave but as someone that the longest I stayed anywhere I think was five six years

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and then back then for me it didn't make that much difference but Darra welcome and do you ever

[00:31:56] [SPEAKER_01]: view on this yeah I'd say everybody else joins I said I'm not gonna be left on my own

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_01]: I had everyone yeah a couple of things I just I was thinking about what to resound my loyalty and

[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_01]: the funny thing about loyalty I agree with Danny it in a way like loyalty using that word

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that word is in word that's used to count down leaders are looking for loyalty from

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_01]: from their employees they're looking wondering why the employees aren't loyal but there's very

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_01]: few employees using that word what they react to I think is the actions found the data

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_01]: shen and if as you what you said mark Ms is if the leaders are giving something

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_01]: something to that employee that they want better be personal development whether it be

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_01]: career progression whatever or just a fun environment working that's why they stay

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_01]: just I think loyalty isn't it is an outdated word I hear dinosaurs use in a few days

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a bit of a dinosaur myself but it's just yeah it's it's it's it's relevant anymore

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_01]: you know you can't expect loyalty and I think that's sometimes happens with the senior leadership

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they expect loyalty because you know they they that seem to believe that this is a great place

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_01]: to work and they play the well in this ABC indeed I also would you say about the CVs I

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_01]: like what you say in about I don't mind people moving around with other interviews

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_01]: touch this is a very same in in the whole process of knowing your customer and all of

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_01]: this heavy you have to know your broy and this is a great opportunity to ask those questions

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_01]: find out one it is that they desire and one are they looking for and why are they jumping around

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_01]: to find it what's missing I find these days interviewers and businesses get restricted a little bit

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_01]: not being able to delve in as much as they used to be there are obviously a lot of

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_01]: strict rules around the structure of interviews but you know I'm like you that for me was always

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_01]: a time to really cut it was really a way to just break open the journey that this person

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_01]: and being and what and what actually how they ended up at my door and I found a fast one I

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_01]: didn't have so many reasons why people moved and okay if they've been doing it for

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_01]: you know something to look out for if it comes up towards the end of probation period and

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_01]: every kind of five months six months to think removing maybe that's a red flag must

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_01]: they have to delve in you have to ask the question so I've I've recorded a number of fantastic

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: people that have jumped around for quite some time and they stayed on board I think

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_01]: and maybe I'm blown away on trouble I think they did because they bought into my vision

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_01]: and the way we ran our business at the time but I could be you know like it would be just

[00:34:49] [SPEAKER_01]: you know not my own trouble there much but yeah you know it's sorry so yeah just just my command

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_02]: like told us what I love it and I get the impression we were simpler than it in as much as

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: even before it was a standard thing I had a shaperone I didn't know if people are smart in

[00:35:08] [SPEAKER_00]: oh did we yeah I was gonna say it sounds like it was a smart thing I thought to myself here

[00:35:14] [SPEAKER_01]: is the major sitting here talking let's not have a gun I don't worry you were talking to all

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_02]: of that's the bellgarer hopefully I'm back again I'm about yeah yeah yeah it's just happening

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: every every one of these of ends but uh kept carry deep and it makes a really good point and

[00:35:33] [SPEAKER_02]: can kind of remember it did maybe feel a bit or when you said when when you joined it make me feel

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_02]: very old um but um I can remember when to make sure that a process was air in that you could

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: score all the candidates we went from kind of freestyle interviewing very much and I know that

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: negative is that which you'll based on the skill of the interviewer and that kind of thing but

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_02]: went from that all the way through to extremely structured I can remember sitting down with

[00:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: the HR team and saying at what point can I just have a chat to them in this in this process

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_00]: what where's it at now? I think competency based interviews that believe it or not I think they

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_00]: still have a place because actually you know when people are in leadership positions especially

[00:36:30] [SPEAKER_00]: like it can be really difficult to give feedback off the back of what seals like a generic chat

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_00]: and then I don't understand what they were trying to get out with that question or they said

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_00]: oh they didn't demonstrate x, y and z and they went I'm trying to wrap my brains back to the

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_00]: question that they are that would let in to me to gift that experience to them I don't feel like they

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_00]: asked that question so it does take it back to people being skilled interviewers but also

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_00]: redirecting the conversation because if you're a customer up-sirec third meeting a head of customer

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_00]: up-spect example you can probably fall into a million different rabbit hole from the way and

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00]: actually candidates do prefer in my opinion that more structured approach because at least they can

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_00]: kind of know from the job description the wrong profile but especially if they're not going through

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00]: a recruiter because we can tell them what they're looking for which is a good thing right so they

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_00]: know exactly what to share but without that process a structure interview they'll see on their

[00:37:36] [SPEAKER_00]: job description exactly what technical competency that they need and the values and the behavioural

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_00]: and they can kind of guess what the questions are going to be in the interview will come up with some

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_00]: examples ahead of time so I do feel that the the structure interview still has a place but you

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00]: need to have that you need to have the chatter somewhere in and amongst it so it doesn't feel like

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_00]: great and evamited question one question two which is what it's been something times they're

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_00]: like in a third they didn't to be a well absolutely a night the better interview trading all

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_00]: around Martin if I'm audited when I can help people of Grover ruined you I think what are you

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_05]: getting out of that interview really I would love to know flapping here Darra's and Celta Red absolutely

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: carry 100% oh yeah I couldn't agree more I can remember interest rated but I think this is more

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: about my mind rather than it being something wrong with the with the process because I like that

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_02]: was fair for every candidate but when you'll sat afterwards going now on the question where they

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02]: were asked how did you turn around someone's opinion once can you give us an example of that

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: this candidate scored seven and this one scored five that I used to find that very frustrating

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah sorry Cara oh I was going to say yeah I've been there when we were supporting an

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_00]: insurance customer right in the midland and they were going this scored this and we sat in a

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_00]: panel as an interviewist to find out how we'd ramped and scored people and rushed out whether

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_00]: the score we had given so not and it's one of the things business psychology still is

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_05]: if you start with the idea of equal opportunities so we're an equal opportunity to employ

[00:39:45] [SPEAKER_05]: what that tends to come to your office we don't discriminate based on protected characteristics

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_05]: but that's not what it's about it's about everybody having the same opportunity at interview

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_05]: if you're free wheeling and throwing in random questions about if you were a superhero would you be

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_05]: why then people are getting a different experience and they're not being measured they're going to

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_05]: be measured subjectively in any interview but they're gonna be less objective if you're not using

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_05]: a structure if you're not using some science behind how you approach your processes so

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_05]: well I think I'd hate to be a carry trying to translate feedback and justify why somebody has

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_05]: gotten a role based on you know if you were to invent something what would it be an algebraic

[00:40:33] [SPEAKER_02]: system well actually the approach that we ended up with was the one that got in back to

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: something Dara said that the thing that I found the most the got the best of both worlds was

[00:40:46] [SPEAKER_02]: it was structured questions across a range of the competencies but also gave people the

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: to walking through their employment history and who they were so much based around the CV that's

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: where I found you could really get engaging conversations so you would have the you kind of got

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_02]: the best of the best of both worlds because even though I found the structured ones frustrating I

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_02]: absolutely understood that and bought into the rationale behind it because otherwise they were far too

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00]: many too many variables it often come that without the structure it comes down to and like to them

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_00]: you're wide I really really liked them and you go great why with the reasons this one my top

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00]: of that's the challenge yeah I've fallen out with one of their top them players actually

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_00]: salanghi on my fantasy football because he's out isn't he? he is yeah about about four of my

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_00]: players were out and I forgot to reshuffle the team last week so well you want to talk to Dara

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Dara's winning the team leader community he finally see League at the moment

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_00]: it doesn't even know no

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_01]: jazz to check absolutely I'm definitely a mistake that that wasn't a minute your third

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's not more like it's a good one

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_00]: group is there only four and I am 19 out of 19 in my group because I submitted my team to late

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_00]: in week one so scored nothing I forgot to tap to play a last week and three of my players or four

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_00]: of the war out. So the only way is that hopefully but yeah I think the the structure didn't

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_00]: see has placed and I think actually you know coming back to the loyalty sorry if I'm a dinosaur using

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_00]: it but sometimes it's worse for people if they've been somewhere for a really non-period

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_00]: time because they feel like hey are they going to be really embedded and wedded to that culture

[00:43:00] [SPEAKER_00]: and they are unable to adapt to a new one so I think it's actually trickier to explain

[00:43:07] [SPEAKER_00]: a longer stint somewhere these days than it is to explain shorter ones especially after Covid and stuff

[00:43:15] [SPEAKER_01]: that's a great point caring I think we've all come across people on a beam of businesses

[00:43:19] [SPEAKER_01]: that they're 15 years on and I suppose there is a huge rise to them and just

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_01]: and they don't know anything outside of that institution and can be difficult for them to move

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to go back to the structure piece again and I think I think it's just balance

[00:43:35] [SPEAKER_01]: I think there has to be structure there's no question I think too much structure

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_01]: makes it robotic it prevents leaders from wanting training in this area because I think

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_01]: leaders need training in this area but with structure and process and procedure there's always

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_01]: one very well that's even amongst all of those and that's human behavior and we just can't

[00:43:59] [SPEAKER_01]: remove getting to know the human we can remove getting to know the person because that's so important

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and that's the person we spend so much time with all the time and they may not take every box

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_01]: they may not have everything that you need academically or around the CV or just their attitude

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and who they are what drives them that to me makes usually uncertainty of contact centers

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_01]: that's just that's the greatest person there is the way there are that's what I know

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_01]: of trying to see and it does when it gets too structured it's just it's difficult to get

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_01]: from a person as you said to carry people prepare for these answers you know sometimes you

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_01]: don't need to be examined it's almost nary is like going to an answer from chat to EBT

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_01]: you know what you're talking about what you're going to add and what the answer is

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_01]: so and I think when further when you get moved up and I see in your your tight there

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_01]: it's too soon if you are in for leadership role I think leaders need just need to be

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01]: you know silly questions but I think that they're doing does they today want to surprise

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_01]: questions there and not silly ones but what's the surprise was to see how they managed them

[00:45:15] [SPEAKER_01]: and see how they managed the conversation if they don't know the answer are they confident of to say

[00:45:21] [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that you know what time anymore or whatever it is but yeah no I think people

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_00]: thing is it's just so important you know yeah I think you shouldn't you shouldn't oh sorry

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_00]: you shouldn't have a full hour of structured conversation but I also think you know now

[00:45:36] [SPEAKER_00]: people are always on the lookout for the red flags when they're hiring as opposed to

[00:45:40] [SPEAKER_00]: hey that's a big green flag and they focus up and hone in on the midred flags that come about

[00:45:45] [SPEAKER_01]: there's a lot of focus on red flags this I think we've leaned a little bit too more towards

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_01]: preventing the worst that can happen then actually I suppose you'll see in the worst that can happen

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_01]: there's been the minority of instances and and relying on 99% of the great things that can happen

[00:46:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a lot of times we're trying to do hard to protect the company from her employees when

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_01]: that's not usually if the employees are coming out you're only here doing sorting very

[00:46:16] [SPEAKER_01]: else very wrong it's if that's definitely I don't I I don't I potentially challenge the

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_05]: throw in the odd random question or left-feel question to see how they react unless that is

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_05]: able likely scenario in the role that you're recruiting for because if you're a frontline

[00:46:40] [SPEAKER_05]: advisor on the phones you've got lots of hopefully you've got lots of support around you for when

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_05]: things do come out of left field you have senior advisors or team leader etc processes and

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: protocols that are there when something a bit unscripted happens so what benefit do you have

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_05]: in the interview process testing them for a scenario which they don't necessarily need

[00:47:02] [SPEAKER_05]: and that might actually exclude people who are not good in a crisis that are more grounded

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_05]: down to a realistic practical etc but don't deal with that kind of conceptual

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_05]: flexible adaptable stuff that the role doesn't require 99% of the time or what it does

[00:47:19] [SPEAKER_05]: require it you've got support so I guess kind of the point is often we that my experiences

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_05]: been that will recruit people to test whether we like them to come out to carry's points

[00:47:31] [SPEAKER_05]: building the interview process for to align with what is it that we're actually looking for

[00:47:37] [SPEAKER_05]: in this candidate in this in this applicant and for the day-to-day experience not the one off

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_05]: not there you know this one time we have this screaming customer the directs why i'm

[00:47:48] [SPEAKER_05]: said the actual day-to-day mundane pragmatic practical stuff and then how do we build our talent selection

[00:47:55] [SPEAKER_05]: process based on that and how do we train our interviewers to know what are red flags and

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: more green flags in the back process. I found yeah you all come with such a fascinating stuff as

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_02]: prompted me to you know carry you got the round of applause for what are we doing about the

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_02]: interviewers how we how are we training them to conduct meaningful interactions the

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: also reflect that it's a it's a two-way street you know I I wanted to leave one of the banks I was

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: looking at there I had the opportunity to go to two others and one of them was paying a lot more

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_02]: it looked a lot better role but honestly the guy that interviewed me was so aggressive

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and trying every time I thought I gave what was a good answer he even believed it or not

[00:48:52] [SPEAKER_02]: asked me if I wore my pants outside my trousers because he you know he said you think you're

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of Superman and it was very very confrontational and all I was thinking was I just want this to end

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_02]: as it finished I was like right absolutely not on my work in for them because whilst he may have

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_02]: been a one-off for me he represented that company and I was like I'm never I'm not working there no

[00:49:21] [SPEAKER_00]: chance and we often overlooked that I think people buy into much to those apprentice by

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I'll introduce the grunt VV the entertainment purposes I come to wait up here I in a similar

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_05]: experience I was I was head on to for a role as an operations manager contact centre and it was

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_05]: actually somebody that had been through called well apprentice process I went to work at their

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_05]: but he'd worn their their kind of program and be given a six-figure job and bloody blood

[00:49:54] [SPEAKER_05]: and one of the questions that he asked and I thought it was a good question it really initially

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_05]: asked it was what if we told you that we've seen a lot of candidates today for this role

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_05]: and you just don't fit the bill you just don't cut the nested so I thought this was a how

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_05]: did you deal with rejection kind of kind of questions so my my answer is around the lines of

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_05]: thank you for the feedback and I'd delver bit deeper because even if I'm not successful here what

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_05]: can I learn about is it my presence my gravitas my approaches it for elsewhere and his response was

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_05]: your suit looks cheap and it does it looks like you slept in your car last night

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_05]: right now I was immaculate what value coming back to my earlier point what value does that

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_05]: talk or that question actually adds to the interview process but you you telling me that

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_05]: it's a combative culture that I'm coming into and I need to deal with this kind of banter

[00:50:52] [SPEAKER_05]: is it that your just an idiot is it that you need to be the loudest voice in the room with

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_05]: the least say because it's an ego stroke but yeah there's red bags on both sides and if they just

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_05]: had a process to say what is it that we're looking for what is the type of experience decision

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_05]: making whatever it might be that we're looking for that good looks like and then how do we create

[00:51:15] [SPEAKER_05]: the structured and semi structured processes and I'm trying the people not to charge me on my

[00:51:21] [SPEAKER_00]: dress sense so that we find the right candidate and I think oh sorry I was going to say need

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_00]: an interview Danny but it's interesting because you know when people do these cultural interviews now

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_00]: and you go and when we get asked customers hey well look at this your culture and sometimes they

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_00]: have to clue what the culture is or when you ask one person's another with versus another

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_00]: and it's that there's similar thing happened because one of them thinks that that and I said

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_00]: but you know that's that's not really a culture you said about we value education here and one

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_00]: of the candidates that they're interviewing that they really liked they asked about her degree

[00:52:02] [SPEAKER_00]: and she said yeah I've got two one and the interview with Orpshin was selling them as a

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_00]: brisnist by going hey well most people here have got first like as an impressive sound and in fact

[00:52:15] [SPEAKER_00]: just ended up a setting to the candidate and for the fact that she's got two one you go yeah that

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_00]: she's not been to be going to interview she's not interested in the interviewer can understand why

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_00]: that was because she wasn't directing it at her it was one of those things and you go yeah

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_05]: one of my favorite cultural characters that you can't tell us what your culture is your people show us

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_05]: and if you're interview process if the person is showing behaviors that are

[00:52:42] [SPEAKER_05]: in the con room with what you say your business about so I went see a prospect who's all

[00:52:48] [SPEAKER_05]: it was a precision engineer and they were bringing in a process it was all about 100% quality

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_05]: so no flaws in their manufacturing at all when it gets to the customer but the place that I was

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_05]: doing the kind of interviewing there was just a spaghetti of wires with not connected to anything

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_05]: just looks all over this big oak table the second in command turned up eight minutes late

[00:53:10] [SPEAKER_05]: that these little pieces of information where you're saying we're all about precision and detail

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_05]: and quality well your behaviors don't echo that and the more evidence there is they don't echo

[00:53:23] [SPEAKER_05]: then the more likely I'm gonna think this isn't the place for me

[00:53:26] [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a that's a wall over there it's the fact that the interviewer is also

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_01]: interviewed the interviewer is also interviewing the interviewer because that's something I think

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes interviewers don't realize people are sitting at unless it's you need money or whenever

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_01]: the reason is I need definitely you need to job you might overlook these things but in you know

[00:53:47] [SPEAKER_01]: I think it sets you free when you realize I have the show I'm not here I don't if they offer me

[00:53:52] [SPEAKER_01]: the job doesn't mean I have to take it if I I'm by the same as probably most people here

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I had somebody there entirely that's that's I had to wear a tie in the office because that's how they

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_01]: recognize to manage and loss I went well garlic it's the tie but they're not conferred to see

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_01]: the manager is made just give me a name badge or something oh you know this is just sometimes

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_01]: these places I like yes I'm and you know what Martin you would use said earlier on

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_01]: you know you still have the choice to walk away does it not point to take in a job from somebody

[00:54:24] [SPEAKER_01]: just no on your heart this is going to be held I find that in my own business life when I

[00:54:30] [SPEAKER_01]: when I meet with people and a lot of the times when I went to places they talk about you know

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_01]: pro sessions and procedures and and bringing in efficiencies and they say the staff just

[00:54:39] [SPEAKER_01]: start doing what they need to do when we need to do rabies see indeed and I always asked a question

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_01]: okay how cold to blow you with my comeback after my assessment and tell you that your parent

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_01]: of the problem and if they're open to it and not shocked by that question that to me means I can

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_01]: work with these people because most of the time it comes down to the leadership that's usually

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_01]: the issue certainly give contact centers of my experience or if they don't and they take

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_01]: they say no to problems about not my doorstep it's them they're not doing the work then you know

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_01]: you're not going to be able to make the change and I really chance we work on a jitter way just

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_05]: of the vaminos we're all the same here but there's them that's a piece of that ever

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: well we're all big one family guys we're coming to the hour thank you so much for

[00:55:34] [SPEAKER_02]: for joining in I've really really enjoyed it and if you're all okay I will try to spin this round

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_02]: get it out as a pop cast just let me know if you'd rather not it's all we're all in this together

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_02]: there's no them and I was but thank you all so much it's been it's been fascinating and I love

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_02]: spending time with you guys it's everything I thought this little break room would be

[00:56:01] [SPEAKER_02]: thank you all and have a lovely rest of the day yeah have a good day everyone thanks for

[00:56:07] [SPEAKER_02]: a good day Janice thanks for the thanks everyone