#204 - Get out of Wrap TV ft. Garry Gormley

[00:00:00] Hello everyone. What do you think of the new VT? That took me 10 minutes at least. Hard work. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Get out of Wrap TV. Show 82 today. So I've had a bit of a break. Two weeks off. I was meant to have done a lot more in that time, but it is good to be back. If you are watching, you know the score. Please do say hello in the comments.

[00:00:30] Let's get to know each other. So as well as saying hello in the comments, you can see the networking tab. So you can start building out your own network via this show. Two, we've got a great one lined up today. But remember, I couldn't do this without any of my partners. So starting this where we have a value agent, DDC, outsourcing, OneCom and better. Oh, look, we're off.

[00:00:59] Neres is here. Yes, Neres. And I will reply to your email today. It's on my list. Oh, Ori is here as well. Just love that picture. Heyo mate, he's here and his comments are showing. We love that.

[00:01:14] Now, here we go. The main man. You will be seeing more of Double G very soon. Is that a nickname? I like that. Double G.

[00:01:23] I owe you a call. Don't worry, mate. I know you are super, super busy running all things Nespresso.

[00:01:30] Glad you got a bit of a rest while you were off. Thank you, Ori. It was nice. It was nice.

[00:01:35] Ah, Scott is here as well. Hello, mate. How are you doing? Now, little known fact. That is a get out of wrap hoodie in Scott's picture.

[00:01:47] Um, oh, super Rob is here. Super Rob is here. Who did a great thing on the contact center summit for a value agent recently.

[00:01:57] He is what some would say a genius. Double G is one of my nicknames. I've been called worse. I like Double G.

[00:02:04] I'm sticking with that now. Thank you, Ori. No, thank you. It's a lovely picture. So colorful, just like you.

[00:02:10] Okay. So as I say, I've got really good show lined up, a very special guest waiting in the wings.

[00:02:18] But to start, we always do something like this, don't we? Why not say hello in the comments?

[00:02:24] And you know, this is normally a sales free zone. This isn't necessarily sales, but maybe we could share with each other.

[00:02:33] I think we all start, we all know each other, right? But maybe you don't know what everyone does.

[00:02:38] So why not share in the comments what it is you do? Because you never know where you might need someone's help.

[00:02:48] Ah, pop up pirate Barry Cooper, the main man of money core, expert coach and head of contact center, by the way.

[00:02:56] And a fine, fine friend. He's always checking the numbers.

[00:03:01] I need it. Morning, Martin. Finally found time to attend. Something in your settings means I can't see.

[00:03:11] Everyone else can see who you are. Unfortunately, I can't. So please do let me know who it is.

[00:03:16] I would love to say hello, especially if it's your first time attending. Please do.

[00:03:22] Now, as I was saying, why not drop in the comments what it is you do? And if you don't know, maybe you might have to ask someone.

[00:03:34] Because when anyone in my family or friends outside of this industry asks me, I find it very difficult.

[00:03:42] Aaron is here. Good morning, Aaron. Morning, everyone. Account management team lead at ScoreBunny.

[00:03:49] Excited for the show. Great to see you, Aaron.

[00:03:53] Dan, try to orchestrate things being put in boxes and magically arriving at your house or shop.

[00:04:00] Now, Dan undersells himself. Nespresso have one of the best.

[00:04:04] I know I'm going to order some Nespresso later on today.

[00:04:08] And it is seamless. Absolutely seamless.

[00:04:12] There he is. He's a pirate.

[00:04:15] So Ori is a CX event person who designs events from a CX point of view or something like that.

[00:04:23] And if you haven't checked out Ori's post, you will see exactly what she does.

[00:04:27] Very, very creative.

[00:04:29] I can take, you know, let's be honest.

[00:04:32] This is an industry where there's lots of people doing a lot of the same stuff.

[00:04:35] That definitely isn't Ori.

[00:04:37] Oh, thank you, Rob.

[00:04:39] It's the one and only Justin.

[00:04:41] Yay, Justin.

[00:04:42] Justin, we share a love of all things Black Labs.

[00:04:47] Neris.

[00:04:48] Neris goes around the country carrying out contact center discoveries,

[00:04:52] helping people navigate a path to improvements by leveraging contact center technology.

[00:04:58] I think you undersell yourself, Neris.

[00:05:00] You've missed out rapping.

[00:05:02] You are a world-renowned rapper.

[00:05:04] But there is no one better that manages to cross the bridge from operations to technology and how to get the best out of it.

[00:05:15] You are the fountain of all knowledge.

[00:05:18] Yes, Justin.

[00:05:20] Yes, it's good to see you here.

[00:05:24] Watches all of MT's orders.

[00:05:26] Hit me.

[00:05:27] For the props.

[00:05:28] Well, there's one coming in later today because I'm running a bit low.

[00:05:31] Super, super Scott.

[00:05:33] Hello, all.

[00:05:33] I'm Scott and I head up WFM for the Swansea-based BPO company TCH Group.

[00:05:39] And I do excel things too.

[00:05:41] Now, anyone that knows what it's like at a BPO with multiple campaigns and all of that kind of stuff will know that Scott absolutely is an SME.

[00:05:53] Barry tries to pirate the high seas of customer service, but instead stealing, trying to give back.

[00:06:00] Like Robin Hood.

[00:06:02] You're trying to change your own nickname, Barry.

[00:06:05] I'm not having it.

[00:06:05] You are always going to be a pirate for me.

[00:06:08] Spencer is here.

[00:06:10] Good morning, Vietnam.

[00:06:11] Nam.

[00:06:12] Sorry, gal.

[00:06:13] I'm like a falcon blasting for the disabled community, making waves of noise and spreading the word loud and proud.

[00:06:21] Long may you continue doing that, Spencer, because you are, you've certainly educated and entertained all of us.

[00:06:29] Rob, I help contact centers turn data into insights that drive measurable improvements to CX and EX.

[00:06:37] And is probably one of the most well-rounded people in our industry.

[00:06:43] There's nothing that Rob doesn't know.

[00:06:46] Oh my God.

[00:06:47] Can I just say that one friend who does excel well is worth like 20 mates who don't.

[00:06:52] I would count as one of the 20 who don't.

[00:06:56] I always needed someone like Scott when I was running a contact center.

[00:07:00] Always.

[00:07:02] Oh, probably the best mustache in contact centers.

[00:07:05] Dennis.

[00:07:06] Good to see you, mate.

[00:07:07] Good morning.

[00:07:08] All lovely to see you.

[00:07:09] Sometimes I wonder what I do.

[00:07:11] Technically, I can look after customer experience partnerships at AWS, including Amazon Connect.

[00:07:18] Very, very exciting stuff there.

[00:07:20] Very exciting.

[00:07:22] And an absolute legend from a style point of view, I'd have to say Dennis as well.

[00:07:28] You can only aspire to your kind of levels.

[00:07:33] Okay.

[00:07:33] Keep these coming because I think it's really helpful for us to know where our expertise lies.

[00:07:40] And like I say, it's always good to know who to reach out to.

[00:07:44] Equally, I do just want to say it's going to happen soon, but Dan has made the transition

[00:07:50] from contact center at Nespresso to running all of their logistics.

[00:07:55] And that is going to make an interesting podcast for sure.

[00:08:00] The X-Stash is being called now.

[00:08:03] I love it.

[00:08:05] What's up with your gal t-shirt?

[00:08:08] Is it splashing around a bubble bath at the moment?

[00:08:10] I did try and have a look for it just before this, but I got chatting to our guests.

[00:08:17] So I've gone with Grenfell Athletic.

[00:08:21] Supporting Grenfell.

[00:08:22] All proceeds go to the Grenfell Foundation.

[00:08:24] It's quite old though, this shirt.

[00:08:27] Let's secure the date.

[00:08:28] Yes, I think everyone would be interested in how you've made that transition, Dan, for sure.

[00:08:34] Okay.

[00:08:36] Without further ado.

[00:08:38] Wait a minute.

[00:08:39] Everyone can witness this.

[00:08:41] I will call you Friday 100%.

[00:08:42] Let's see.

[00:08:44] It's normally me that is hard to pin down.

[00:08:47] I've met my match with Dan.

[00:08:51] Okay.

[00:08:52] Without further ado, everybody.

[00:08:54] I know you're going to love this, but it's time for another VT.

[00:08:58] And then we will bring in the double G.

[00:09:13] Here he is.

[00:09:15] Bones.

[00:09:15] God, that VT's just bigged it up, hasn't it?

[00:09:19] Yeah.

[00:09:20] You're going to smash it.

[00:09:21] You're going to make that.

[00:09:22] Inspiring content.

[00:09:23] No pressure.

[00:09:25] Well, you're already ahead with the double G nickname.

[00:09:29] It's perfect.

[00:09:30] I don't know why I didn't twig it before.

[00:09:33] You know what?

[00:09:34] A few people have called me double G.

[00:09:36] I mean, some people call me Gaz.

[00:09:39] It's not my first go-to.

[00:09:41] But yeah, double G's up there.

[00:09:44] Now, so thank you very much for doing this, double G.

[00:09:47] You're coming in to talk about something you're very passionate about.

[00:09:52] And this is live.

[00:09:53] It's interactive.

[00:09:55] So I would ask everyone still watching to throw in their comments, their questions.

[00:10:01] Even if those comments are trying to put Gary off or they're coming up with new nicknames for him.

[00:10:10] Please do keep them coming.

[00:10:13] So, Gary, what?

[00:10:14] Oh, here we go.

[00:10:15] Look.

[00:10:15] Straight away.

[00:10:17] TV legend in the house or shed.

[00:10:20] You know, people say it looks like a shed and people say it also looks like a fake background.

[00:10:25] So when they do, I have to like tap plants and say it's real.

[00:10:28] It's definitely real.

[00:10:30] It's in my bunker.

[00:10:33] Now, I'm going to try and do the spotlight.

[00:10:35] So we're going to move.

[00:10:38] We're going to move this the other way around.

[00:10:40] There we go.

[00:10:41] So the spotlight is on you, Gary.

[00:10:43] What are you talking about today?

[00:10:45] You know what?

[00:10:46] I'm talking about how we can shape.

[00:10:49] We can help team leaders shape the agent and the customer conversation through use of things like coaching and various different tools.

[00:11:00] Maybe a little bit of speech analytics thrown in there if people have got it.

[00:11:03] But it's about, I suppose, thinking about the conversation that agents, that team leaders have with agents and how we can improve performance ultimately.

[00:11:11] I love it.

[00:11:12] Well, the stage is yours.

[00:11:13] I will still be here to, I'll be like one of the old men in the Muppet show.

[00:11:19] Okay.

[00:11:20] You know, but I won't be shouting rubbish.

[00:11:24] Well, no virtual tomatoes thrown, please, anybody.

[00:11:28] Here we go.

[00:11:29] Just quickly.

[00:11:30] Morning, Amman.

[00:11:31] Great to see you.

[00:11:32] And as Rob says, and I concur, nothing fake about Gary.

[00:11:37] Yeah.

[00:11:38] Very nice.

[00:11:38] Thank you, Rob.

[00:11:39] So you're amongst friends, Gary.

[00:11:41] And the stage is yours.

[00:11:42] I'm going to set myself a little timer because as you know, mine, I can go on.

[00:11:46] So I'll set myself a little 10 minute timer.

[00:11:49] And then if I go over, tell me to shut up.

[00:11:54] But what StreamYard need is like a virtual hook.

[00:11:58] You know, the gentles.

[00:12:00] Get him off.

[00:12:01] If he's no good.

[00:12:02] Get him off.

[00:12:04] Brilliant.

[00:12:04] Brilliant.

[00:12:05] Well, I will, I will start and you'll be pleased to know that I'm not doing death by PowerPoint and I'm not doing like loads of slides.

[00:12:11] So this is just a stimulating conversation between friends and hopefully it will be stimulating.

[00:12:19] That'll get people to think.

[00:12:19] But I have a question for everybody listening and joining today.

[00:12:24] And that question is, is can data from everyday conversations reveal the key to breakthrough agent performance?

[00:12:33] So I'm going to ask you to pop that response down into the comments section.

[00:12:38] But over the course of the next 10 minutes, I'm going to try and focus minds and attention on aspects that may be able to help us answer some of that question.

[00:12:47] So we're going to be talking about three things in the main.

[00:12:50] And those three things are is how we can turn conversational data into insight.

[00:12:55] How we can enhance agent development through more targeted feedback conversations.

[00:13:01] And then the last one is how we create a more proactive and maybe less reactive customer service experience.

[00:13:09] So I'm going to dive into each of the topic areas.

[00:13:13] And if something springs to mind or if something's really useful and it resonates, please feel free to drop a comment into the thread and share your thoughts.

[00:13:23] And if you violently disagree with me, wouldn't the world be a really dull place if we all agreed?

[00:13:28] So if you violently disagree, even better, throw it into the comments and let's get into a debate and into a discussion.

[00:13:34] And so the first part that we talk about there is how do we turn conversational data into insight?

[00:13:40] Now, I'm not going to preach about speech analytics too much or conversation analytics too much, but I'm a real big believer in it.

[00:13:49] But lots of people still don't have access to the tools and to the tech.

[00:13:53] So we're going to do this in a kind of a way that if you've got the tools, great, use it to think about the conversation.

[00:13:58] If you've not, think about how you can approach this in your contact center without all of those bells and whistles.

[00:14:05] So for me to answer that question around turning conversational data into insight, it's about turning words into actionable data.

[00:14:14] Now, we've all been in the telephony world long enough to know that we don't have the luxury of that face-to-face interaction with people, sadly.

[00:14:22] So we've not got the opportunity to read people's expressions.

[00:14:25] We've not got the opportunity to look at our body language.

[00:14:29] So in our interactions with customers, words really do matter.

[00:14:37] And sometimes when we're going through the process of doing core coaching and I've been there, I've been sat at the end of my desk with my headset on, praying people don't interrupt me just to get through my audits.

[00:14:51] Because I had to do so many per person per month and I always left them to the last couple of days of the month.

[00:14:56] So I just went in and literally just put myself into a room off the floor and you just listen to calls.

[00:15:03] And we end up going through the motions listening to calls.

[00:15:06] But when we analyze the words that we use and the language that customers use, we identify some really interesting things.

[00:15:14] If we give ourselves the capacity to think about the words and the language that's being spoken.

[00:15:19] So we pick up key patterns.

[00:15:21] We might pick up key phrases that customers use.

[00:15:23] We might identify potential vulnerability in the conversations that we've got.

[00:15:28] Or more importantly, these days, given the changing circumstances which people are interacting with us, we might identify some more cognitive behavioral patterns that we need to address.

[00:15:38] And we need to be mindful of so that we can change how we communicate with people.

[00:15:43] So we might look out for the sentiment and the tone and the intent of the customer.

[00:15:47] And we can start to pick up on all of that positive language that agents use that might help de-escalate some of the issues that come into the contact center.

[00:15:59] And I talk about understanding the why and the what behind customer outcomes.

[00:16:04] And I think there's two very distinctive differences in that.

[00:16:08] And when I talk about why and what, what I mean is, why is it that when we're listening into some agents, they're able to turn escalations into non-escalations and some people don't?

[00:16:23] Why is it that maybe some calls that we listen to where a customer is really angry, some agents are able to turn that round into a really positive outcome for the customer and it avoids turning into complaint.

[00:16:35] So when we look at both the why and the what that happens on a call, we can understand the demand drivers.

[00:16:43] And that's the key bit, understanding the demand driver that's driving some of that negative interaction that we can then use to understand what maybe specifically the agents did or didn't do to achieve that outcome, whether it be positive or negative.

[00:16:58] But it allows us to understand how an agent can influence a conversation in turning a negative into a positive.

[00:17:05] So the whole aspect of this section, I suppose, is thinking about what are the words that we're listening to when we're going through that cycle of conversation and how are we making use of that so we can later use it in coaching conversations.

[00:17:20] And that doesn't mean that you need to have really expensive kit to go away and listen to that.

[00:17:26] We just have to be really intentional with how we are listening to customer conversations.

[00:17:32] And yes, speech analytics tools and conversational analytics tools exist and they can help with that.

[00:17:38] But if you don't have it, it's being mindful and it's being intentional about the words and the language that you're listening to when you're listening to your agents and when you're listening to customers and understanding the why and the what that your agents are doing.

[00:17:51] That's turning that from a negative into a positive.

[00:17:55] And the last thing with that, I suppose, is then how do we make more informed decisions using that data?

[00:18:02] So how do we actually sit down and analyze what decisions the agents are making and what decisions we're making rather than just thinking, actually, right, I know this call from Martin's going to be awesome because Martin's an awesome agent.

[00:18:14] But I know the one from Gary is going to be questionable.

[00:18:16] So I'm really going to be listening out for some of the stuff that Gary's saying because he's a dodgy agent.

[00:18:21] So you have to really think about all of the data that we've got available.

[00:18:25] And you don't necessarily have to have tools to do that, but you can listen to how much did the agent talk?

[00:18:31] How much did the customer talk?

[00:18:33] How did they respond with empathy to that customer conversation?

[00:18:37] How many questions did the agent ask?

[00:18:39] Are they really trying to get under the skin of what some of the customer's challenges are?

[00:18:43] What type of questions are they asking?

[00:18:45] So are they asking open questions?

[00:18:47] Are they asking closed questions?

[00:18:48] Are they asking probing TED style questions and really getting under the skin of what's important to the customer?

[00:18:54] And that makes for a really powerful coaching conversation to then go and have with your agent.

[00:18:59] So it becomes a much more insightful conversation.

[00:19:03] And it's data led rather than just generic observations.

[00:19:06] And that takes me to the next part of, I suppose, the conversation is how do we start to understand an enhanced agent development through more targeted feedback?

[00:19:16] And with this, we need to identify skill gaps in real time.

[00:19:19] There's no point in holding up all of the coaching conversations you have or the call recorders that you're listening to, like me, to the last two days of the month.

[00:19:27] Because that's going to give nobody any opportunity or time to develop.

[00:19:31] And there's really awesome tools out there that can do this real time.

[00:19:35] And Nerys will vouch for this because she's been on a podcast with me where we talked about real time guidance and agent guidance tools and things that can help you adjust your behaviors real time.

[00:19:47] But I think it's about coaching rather than checking.

[00:19:52] And I say that because there's a very real difference between the two.

[00:19:56] We're coaching and listening rather than retrospectively checking if we did something right.

[00:20:03] Are we trying to catch people out or are we trying to catch them doing it right?

[00:20:06] And you can only do that real time to have really successful coaching calls.

[00:20:11] So real time coaching can help us identify the soft skills that are being used or maybe skills that are lacking.

[00:20:17] It can help us identify the tone of voice.

[00:20:19] It can help us uncover opportunities of empathy.

[00:20:22] It can help us find the right listening skills or probing questions that are happening.

[00:20:26] And all that drives improvement.

[00:20:28] And it allows you then to tailor that conversation and personalize that conversation to individuals.

[00:20:34] And I think where things like speech analytics tools and conversational analytics helps is it allows you to personalize that coaching conversation at scale.

[00:20:45] So you can listen to more is essentially it's giving the opportunity to increase the volume of coaching conversations or coaching insights that you might have that you're then able to have a conversation with.

[00:20:56] So if you're lucky enough to have that great personalize the conversation and the coaching conversation you're about to have at scale.

[00:21:03] If you don't have it, then my biggest top tip for people is start to think about how you're coaching for conversational performance, not necessarily coaching for compliance.

[00:21:13] In my personal view, and feel free to challenge, you can't coach for compliance.

[00:21:19] Compliance is you either did it or you didn't do it.

[00:21:21] What you can coach for is call handling.

[00:21:24] What you can coach for is questioning skills.

[00:21:26] What you can coach for is how much of that opportunity for that conversation did I listen intently and respond empathetically.

[00:21:34] So that allows us to really tailor the feedback based on specific data that we've listened to and observed rather than making it more of a compliance driven conversation.

[00:21:46] So it really helps with that.

[00:21:47] And it allows us, once we've started to, I suppose, catalog those outcomes and have those conversations to do something a little bit different in terms of using the data and using the metrics that is going to help us shift agent behavior that we've identified and allow us to monitor performance improvement and assess how our coaching efforts are directly impacting that performance.

[00:22:14] So if you've not got whiz bang tools to help you do that, failing that, we need to be asking the agents.

[00:22:20] We need to be saying to the agents, right, we've just done a coaching session on X.

[00:22:25] How soon are you going to implement that in your calls?

[00:22:27] Is it going to be on your next call?

[00:22:29] Do you want to role play it?

[00:22:30] Do you want to do something different?

[00:22:31] And then getting them to signpost to you when they've actually tried using some of those skills.

[00:22:36] And that's the whole W bit of that grow matrix that we look at is what are you going to do?

[00:22:41] When are you going to do it?

[00:22:42] And when am I going to see the outputs in some of those conversations?

[00:22:46] So if you've not got tools that are going to help support it, get commitment, get engagement from people as to when they're going to do it.

[00:22:52] So then you as a leader don't have to spend half an hour, 45 minutes listening to stuff that is actually not adding any value.

[00:23:01] And then the final bit of kind of suppose today's conversation is just how do we switch from being reactive in our customer experience to a more proactive customer experience?

[00:23:10] And that boils down to how we start to build that continuous improvement agenda.

[00:23:15] And we talk here about next issue avoidance is how do we stop things happening over and over again?

[00:23:21] And we talked earlier about some of the things that get in the way and some of the things that cause us challenges

[00:23:27] and some of the stuff that is thrown out for when we're listening to calls.

[00:23:32] And I think here it's saying, right, actually, we need to reduce the burden on our agents by closing off some of the demand that's going to come in.

[00:23:40] Agents are under stress and they're dealing with some of the same stuff over and over again.

[00:23:44] So we need to close the loop on customer problems and customer demand.

[00:23:48] And again, part of that, if you don't have the whiz bang tools, is creating the infrastructure and the framework that allows people to surface up those continuous improvement opportunities

[00:23:59] and allow people the tools and the mechanisms to cite when they've identified that something's gone wrong, how they can do that.

[00:24:06] And if it's driven by an agent, it's then incumbent on the team leader to pull that out as part of that coaching and as part of that autopsy into how things went wrong.

[00:24:17] And that allows us to build on the empathy levels of agents, allows us to build on the understanding of agent gaps and agent competency.

[00:24:25] And as a result of all of that, it drives an improvement in how efficient we are, how effective we are, which ultimately has an impact on handling times,

[00:24:35] has an impact on customer experience, drives up the customer satisfaction because we're getting things right first time and we're not seeing that repeat demand come in.

[00:24:44] So if I can leave you with one statement, because I'm over my 10 minutes, Martin, and you knew this was going to happen.

[00:24:51] If I can leave you with one statement, I suppose it's that conversational analytics, whether it's system driven or through your own analytics, isn't just about understanding conversations.

[00:25:03] It's about using those insights to transform and how we drive a breakthrough in people's performance as a result of that.

[00:25:13] So that's just my one key takeaway with it is if you don't have whiz bang tools, think about the art of the conversation and how we can use that to change performance and drive a change and a shift in behavior.

[00:25:27] And with that, I'll say thank you very much and hand back to Martin.

[00:25:31] That is great.

[00:25:32] That was brilliant.

[00:25:33] And it's really got, really got me thinking before I share with you some thoughts.

[00:25:38] Firstly, thank you very much, Gary.

[00:25:40] Let's, I want to share with you some of the comments that have been coming in.

[00:25:45] Get him off.

[00:25:45] Get him off.

[00:25:46] In answer to your first question, Gary, Barry absolutely agreed and said, yes, this can lead to agent behavior.

[00:25:54] Then Aaron followed up with, absolutely you can.

[00:25:58] Root cause analysis and strengths-based coaching rely on these everyday interactions.

[00:26:04] So really agreeing with you there, Gary.

[00:26:06] Strength-based, I'm really a fan of that.

[00:26:08] You've got a fan.

[00:26:09] Rachel is here.

[00:26:10] Yeah, Rick.

[00:26:12] And Rob says, Rob Wilkinson, enables a far better coverage.

[00:26:17] Analyzing 100% of conversations is more robust, representative and fair.

[00:26:22] So I'd agree with that.

[00:26:25] I suppose the challenge with that is not everybody has it.

[00:26:28] So it's being really targeted and specific when you don't have access to all of those tools.

[00:26:34] And I know from my own experience is it used to take me forever to find the right call.

[00:26:39] So I think tools help take away the stress from and build more capacity for agents.

[00:26:45] But I suppose it's engaging with your agents to kind of find the right call at the right time if you don't have some of that stuff.

[00:26:53] I agree.

[00:26:54] And I think you made a really nice point at the end around intention and focus.

[00:26:58] So regardless of the tools I've got, and it did make me chuckle when you said about doing all your call monitoring at the end of the month.

[00:27:07] You're that guy too.

[00:27:08] Yeah.

[00:27:09] We've all been there to the point where I can remember there was one guy in my team and he said a certain phrase every call.

[00:27:18] And it got to the point that I must have monitored like 60, 70 calls in a day where I really liked him as a person.

[00:27:27] By the end of the day, he said, do you think you can get it?

[00:27:30] And I was like, I couldn't look at him.

[00:27:32] I was like, oh, I hate that phrase.

[00:27:34] I used to have an agent that did that.

[00:27:36] You always use the word basically.

[00:27:38] It's like, oh, if I hear that word again, ever, I might just fall over.

[00:27:44] But let's go back to this.

[00:27:46] So here we go.

[00:27:47] Spencer is going to blow your mind with this one.

[00:27:51] Gary, does your fad have a secret handshake with Thunderbird?

[00:27:54] Do you have any jaw dropping rides like Fab One, Lady Penelope, Snazzy, Six Wheeled, Rolls Royce?

[00:28:02] You know what?

[00:28:02] Not a lot of people know, but fab isn't me just saying that my business is fab.

[00:28:07] Albeit, I believe it is.

[00:28:09] It actually stands for Forensic About Business.

[00:28:13] It's an acronym.

[00:28:14] Oh, there we go.

[00:28:15] So there you go.

[00:28:16] Anybody that didn't know, it stands for Forensic About Business.

[00:28:19] There we go.

[00:28:20] I love it.

[00:28:21] Okay.

[00:28:21] Marvin.

[00:28:22] Hello, Marvin.

[00:28:43] Marvin.

[00:28:52] That in itself drives certain behaviors as a team leader.

[00:28:56] Say, right, I'm listening for this phrase rather than I'm listening to how they use tone.

[00:29:01] I'm listening to how they empathize.

[00:29:04] And I've got a model that I share with people called the three R's of rapport and empathy.

[00:29:09] And it stands for react, remember, and reuse.

[00:29:12] So you react to the information that the customer is giving to you.

[00:29:15] And most people tend to go in autopilot.

[00:29:18] So they forget about those reactions.

[00:29:20] And that reaction includes empathizing with the customer.

[00:29:22] It's then how do you remember it?

[00:29:24] It's how do you become memory independent?

[00:29:25] So did I put it in my notes?

[00:29:28] Did I mention that Martin's going on holiday and he's going to Spain and he's taking the

[00:29:30] kids and he's taking Hugo and he's having to pay extra luggage for Hugo to stick him

[00:29:35] in the back of the plane?

[00:29:36] All of that stuff.

[00:29:37] I then reuse in the next conversation.

[00:29:39] How is your trip?

[00:29:39] How is this?

[00:29:40] And that shows active listening.

[00:29:41] It shows that you've really understood and that you've been present for that conversation.

[00:29:45] So I think part of that is part of that whole process of understanding and process of coaching

[00:29:51] rather than checking.

[00:29:53] He would need a plane all by himself.

[00:29:55] I mean, he would terrorize.

[00:29:56] He's going Fab 1.

[00:29:59] Flying Fab 1.

[00:30:01] Neris, of course.

[00:30:02] Neris says, I know it's binary, but I think you can do a bit of coaching around compliance.

[00:30:07] Love this.

[00:30:08] Understand if they are clear on why the verbatims are so important.

[00:30:12] Understand what the barriers are to delivering them and how committed are you to changing?

[00:30:17] Yeah, I'm up for a better challenge there, Neris.

[00:30:19] I'd agree with that.

[00:30:21] And Marvin makes a great point here.

[00:30:23] The most important question in coaching is why?

[00:30:26] Why are we doing what we are doing?

[00:30:29] Many leaders and managers forget this.

[00:30:31] This will reveal reason and outcome.

[00:30:34] You know what?

[00:30:35] And Marvin's totally right there.

[00:30:37] And Marvin looks like a really cool dude, to be fair.

[00:30:39] But I think there's an observation that I make when I'm working with leadership populations.

[00:30:44] They think they're coaching, but they're not really.

[00:30:46] They're just giving feedback.

[00:30:47] And they're not connecting to the dots as to why it's so important.

[00:30:50] So I would 100% agree with Marvin on that.

[00:30:53] Here we go.

[00:30:53] Another question from Spencer.

[00:30:55] Have you encountered situations involving vulnerable customers,

[00:30:59] particularly within the financial sector?

[00:31:01] It is essential to adhere to the framework established by the FCA to ensure that all customers are treated equitably,

[00:31:08] thereby facilitating the best possible customer experience.

[00:31:12] And actually, I'm not just saying this.

[00:31:13] This is something we were talking about before we came on air.

[00:31:17] So, Gary, take it away.

[00:31:18] Yeah, you know what?

[00:31:19] I worked for a long time in the regulated industry.

[00:31:22] So, quality assurance, training competence, FCA regulations, ICOBS, all of those are etched very firmly in my brain.

[00:31:32] And vulnerable customers was a key part of that.

[00:31:34] And where people struggled with vulnerable customer, and where I think tools can help with it,

[00:31:40] is the identification piece.

[00:31:43] It's to say, right, how are we identifying that an agent has correctly identified

[00:31:48] and then tailored their conversation to that vulnerable customer?

[00:31:52] And what vulnerability is it that they're demonstrating?

[00:31:55] And is it a, for want of a better word, a permanent vulnerability?

[00:31:59] Or is it one that's a little bit more transient in its nature,

[00:32:04] like a financial vulnerability, for example, or grief, for example, that might be driven?

[00:32:08] So, it's how do you start to identify that and then give the team leader the tools to be able to coach,

[00:32:13] but also give the agent the tools to be able to react to that real-time.

[00:32:18] And that's where the stuff that I mentioned earlier, like real-time guidance and real-time automation

[00:32:24] can help surface things to agents when it picks up on potential vulnerabilities in the conversation.

[00:32:30] But that also acts as a really useful trigger to then make sure that you're recording that vulnerability

[00:32:36] so that the next agent can react to it in the same way and tailor their conversation to whatever that vulnerability is.

[00:32:42] Yeah, great point.

[00:32:44] And Neris says,

[00:32:46] I feel sad for the contact centers who don't have auto-QA and or CAI.

[00:32:52] It is a game changer.

[00:32:55] The ROI should write itself.

[00:32:57] Very true, I think.

[00:33:01] And Barry, I love seeing how many times we all use Y.

[00:33:05] Understand, much like Mark, you're agreeing with Marvin here, Barry,

[00:33:09] understanding the Y is key to everything we do.

[00:33:11] I think we have to remember some live listening, listening to call in the now,

[00:33:15] when sat opposite or next to the CSR,

[00:33:19] can really help understand the why of the call and the outcome.

[00:33:22] And I would agree with that.

[00:33:24] You take those opportunities to do that live listening

[00:33:28] as a chance to remind people of purpose as well.

[00:33:31] You know, it isn't just catching the things that they do well,

[00:33:35] which is very, very important, like you said, Gary.

[00:33:37] But I think it is an opportunity to both connect and remind of purpose for sure.

[00:33:43] For sure.

[00:33:45] Barry says, I had a manager that did...

[00:33:46] He loves it, Barry, doesn't he?

[00:33:47] He does.

[00:33:48] Yeah, I had a manager that didn't like basically,

[00:33:51] as I used to use it all the time.

[00:33:53] I wasn't that manager, was I, Barry?

[00:33:56] Let's just wait.

[00:33:59] Until he told me it was what he called a weasel word

[00:34:04] and instantly made me think about the word and others I use

[00:34:07] to see how I can improve the words I use to get better results.

[00:34:11] That's great.

[00:34:13] I like that, weasel words.

[00:34:14] We've got a few coming in here.

[00:34:16] Amman does great stuff and I know this for a fact.

[00:34:19] We all know the magic happens when coaching is done regularly and done well.

[00:34:26] Rob, conversations our agents handle have changed so much over the years,

[00:34:31] so coaching needs to change too.

[00:34:33] Bab, Gary.

[00:34:34] Gary.

[00:34:36] Fears are up.

[00:34:37] Here we go.

[00:34:39] Marvin, I coach my team to use positive phrases all the time.

[00:34:42] Even if you don't resolve the customer's issues,

[00:34:44] you can still get a positive rating on CSAT and increase NPS.

[00:34:48] This is based on the how factor,

[00:34:51] how one interacts and responds to the customer.

[00:34:54] Marvin is on it.

[00:34:55] Got to applaud that.

[00:34:57] Love it.

[00:34:57] Yeah, definitely agree with that.

[00:35:00] Barry.

[00:35:01] Spencer Collins is on it.

[00:35:02] Yes, Barry's answering Spencer here.

[00:35:05] Consumer duty has had a massive impact on how we all should be treating our vulnerable customers,

[00:35:10] although I hope we don't need consumer duty to make us treat them fairly.

[00:35:14] Great point.

[00:35:16] Yeah, there's a couple of things in the regulated space.

[00:35:19] I mean, you've got consumer duty, which is all about helping making sure customers understand what they're buying and how well they're treated.

[00:35:28] But there's also, and I think this is where leaders become more accountable,

[00:35:31] is the senior manager conduct regime that also kind of gives real clear guidance as to how managers should be showing up for people as well.

[00:35:38] So I think when you combine the two there, it's no wonder the FCA have put all this together,

[00:35:43] is it should create a really customer-centric and employee-centric environment for leaders to operate in.

[00:35:53] So it should make life easier, but I don't necessarily think it's all bedded in yet as well as it perhaps should be.

[00:36:00] And you shouldn't like this, the point, you shouldn't need something like that to do it.

[00:36:05] Rob says lots of contact centers have frameworks in place for handling vulnerable customers,

[00:36:10] but they're missing the link in identifying when to use them at the right time.

[00:36:15] Interesting.

[00:36:16] And you know, that's all about those triggers.

[00:36:18] And I think it's again about how we show up for agents is to say, right,

[00:36:23] that maybe the last thing that an agent is thinking at the time that they're dealing with a vulnerable customer is,

[00:36:28] shit, I need to log that and I need to make a record of it.

[00:36:33] What they're thinking of is that, how do I protect this customer and how do I support this customer?

[00:36:38] But the other important part from a regulator perspective is that we're closing the loop on it.

[00:36:43] So if we don't record it and then we don't monitor it and we don't change it,

[00:36:47] we're actually just as guilty as not recognizing it in the first place.

[00:36:50] So I think it's having the framework's fine.

[00:36:53] The adherence to the framework is one thing.

[00:36:55] The recording of the outcomes from those conversations is another.

[00:37:00] Very true.

[00:37:01] Yeah.

[00:37:02] And Gary used it a lot while talking to you today.

[00:37:04] Understand the why.

[00:37:05] Great work, Double G.

[00:37:07] I think he's catching on that.

[00:37:09] He does say, no, it wasn't you, Gary.

[00:37:13] Ah, Danny is here.

[00:37:15] Actually, I'm basically like, you know, late to the like show today.

[00:37:20] Danny, you missed a new VT.

[00:37:24] So you're going to have to go back and watch it.

[00:37:26] I was thinking of you when I made that.

[00:37:28] I was like, oh, Danny loves a VT.

[00:37:31] Basically, actually, literally.

[00:37:34] My eight-year-old every sentence.

[00:37:36] You've started us all off here, Double G.

[00:37:39] You know what?

[00:37:39] It's that other thing as well.

[00:37:40] It's that upward inflection.

[00:37:43] We're all guilty now of putting an upwards inflection on a lot of the things that we say,

[00:37:46] which almost means that we're asking a question.

[00:37:49] But we're not really.

[00:37:50] Oh, Rick is here.

[00:37:53] Rick Bickerton.

[00:37:54] Hi, all late to the show today.

[00:37:56] Some of the best NPS scores I've got are from people where they have not got the resolution

[00:38:00] they were looking for initially, but from the way they were treated.

[00:38:04] That is brilliant.

[00:38:09] Spencer, okay, is replying to Barry.

[00:38:11] I understand your point, Barry, but ideally there should be continuous training to address

[00:38:15] a specific needs and situation of vulnerable customers.

[00:38:18] This will help ensure that call centers deliver the most suitable support and guidance.

[00:38:24] Empathy and patience are essential in these interactions as they foster trust and make

[00:38:28] customers feel valued and acknowledged.

[00:38:31] Furthermore, having a thorough understanding of available resources and assistance can enable

[00:38:36] us to provide practical solutions.

[00:38:39] And well, I think there's no one here that would disagree with that, Spencer.

[00:38:44] And we're always looking to do more.

[00:38:47] Ah, good, Danny.

[00:38:48] He's going to...

[00:38:49] Don't worry, I'll be on replay later.

[00:38:51] Thank you, sir.

[00:38:53] Obviously.

[00:38:54] Well, it's not obvious to me.

[00:38:57] And Aman, businesses tend to be good at telling agents what they need to know and not the how

[00:39:03] to do it.

[00:39:03] Very true.

[00:39:04] I think that's a sign of people's coaching competency, isn't it?

[00:39:08] If they're in the sort of tell space.

[00:39:10] Unless an agent's understanding why they need to do something, they won't do it.

[00:39:16] So, so...

[00:39:17] Behavioral change 101.

[00:39:19] To understand why.

[00:39:20] Gary, we have learned a lot today, thanks to you.

[00:39:23] So thank you so much for coming in.

[00:39:26] We'll have to do it again.

[00:39:28] I don't know if you wanted to shout out.

[00:39:30] You have a birthday and an event this week.

[00:39:35] So this is your opportunity to let people know about it.

[00:39:37] So, a little sub-brand of mine, high-performing culture turned one.

[00:39:42] So there's been a lot of blood, sweat and tears that have gone into that.

[00:39:45] So that's a leadership development program.

[00:39:47] So if anybody would like to know any more about that, drop me a lie and say happy birthday.

[00:39:50] And then we've got the event coming up this Thursday.

[00:39:54] So we've got Katie Stabler and Myles Courtney Thomas joining.

[00:39:58] Love all those balloons, Martin.

[00:39:59] And we're talking about how you can craft customer-centric contact strategies on the Contact Center Network.

[00:40:06] If you've seen some of the promos for it, you'll notice I spelt centric wrong.

[00:40:11] It's now corrected.

[00:40:12] But yeah, please join us on Thursday, 1 till 2, where we've got a really awesome conversation lined up.

[00:40:17] So that's a little plug.

[00:40:19] You are...

[00:40:20] I will be there.

[00:40:21] You'll be welcome back on this show whenever you want, Gary.

[00:40:24] Gary, thank you very much for joining.

[00:40:27] Everybody else, thank you for all your comments and interaction.

[00:40:31] It's kind of what makes the show.

[00:40:33] I mean, don't get me wrong, Double G's grey.

[00:40:35] If it had just been me and him, well, we would have had a good conversation.

[00:40:39] But it's been made 10 times better by everyone.

[00:40:43] Don't forget to connect with people you're not connected with.

[00:40:47] Thank you all for joining.

[00:40:49] And Gary, thank you so much, my friend.

[00:40:52] Awesome.

[00:40:53] I hope it's been a pleasure, Martin.

[00:40:54] And thanks, everybody, for their lovely comments.

[00:40:57] Oh, see you all next Tuesday.

[00:40:59] So I will be back next Tuesday.

[00:41:02] We are back on the weekly film.

[00:41:04] So see you all then.

[00:41:05] Thanks, everyone.

[00:41:06] Bye-bye.

[00:41:07] Bye-bye.

[00:41:07] Take care.

[00:41:09] Bye-bye.

[00:41:11] Bye-bye.

[00:41:11] See you.