#207 Clayton Trotsky & The Future Leaders Club

[00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Get Out of Wrap. Today I'm very pleased to be joined by Clayton Trotsky, the founder of The Growth Group and we're here to talk about something amazing that he is doing. Just before we hit record we were talking about our shared love of Tottenham Hotspur. We weren't really, I'm trying to convert Clayton from his current team but I'm having no joy. Anyway, Clayton, great to have you here my friend.

[00:00:30] Yo Martin, thank you so much for having me and thanks for trying to convert me. At least I feel important.

[00:00:36] Yes, I only want certain people to follow the team.

[00:00:39] So I'm wearing the colours so I'm all...

[00:00:42] You're nearly there. I'm nearly there. I live north of London, I don't know if that makes a difference.

[00:00:49] Yeah, that does. Yeah, that's close enough.

[00:00:51] Perfect.

[00:00:51] So we have, we speak regularly I think about every week. We've got to know each other through LinkedIn like so many people and we have a similar background, very similar, albeit in different countries, because you may have picked up from Clayton's accent where he's from.

[00:01:13] And we have a shared, we have a shared love of making a difference to leaders, especially team leaders, maybe leaders that are, maybe they have a different title but they're quite early on in their journey.

[00:01:29] Where has that passion for making a difference to people like that come from?

[00:01:36] I think because I was there, you know, just like yourself. We've got those stories, you know, we, I was fortunate to become a leader quite quickly in my tenure.

[00:01:44] Someone saw something in me, I don't know what they saw, but they obviously saw something and they said, well, we want you to lead the team.

[00:01:51] And yeah, I had a very weird thought of leadership at the time. So I did things that were uncharacteristically me.

[00:02:00] So I would try and get people to like me by doing everything for everybody, working long hours, not taking on any challenges because I was afraid that people would find out that I'm not actually, I don't actually know what I'm doing.

[00:02:11] And doing everything for everybody would mean that I could do it in secret where I had to try and figure out what I was doing.

[00:02:17] So no one really knew that I was way over, way in, way over my head.

[00:02:21] I would avoid confrontation like the plague because I was everybody's buddy.

[00:02:25] You know, in my mid twenties, I was naughty, but I was a lot of fun in the contact center environment, especially in the open plan office.

[00:02:34] That was like my, my, that was perfect for me.

[00:02:37] So when I became the leader, now I had to go and for, in my mind, I had to backtrack and be like, oh, I'm all professional.

[00:02:45] Now I have to like, you know, be the leader.

[00:02:47] So I also wanted people to like me and I didn't want people to think that I was now arrogant or now the boss and they couldn't talk to me.

[00:02:56] So I wouldn't tell anyone, I wouldn't have a conversation with anybody if they were late for work consecutively.

[00:03:02] You know, I wouldn't have a conversation if people were doing the wrong thing.

[00:03:04] I would just let it go in the hope that that would fix it, fix itself.

[00:03:09] So I was in that position and so many of us are in that position when we first start and started not liking it.

[00:03:15] I started like six months later.

[00:03:16] I was not liking this position because it was exceptionally stressful.

[00:03:19] I even, I didn't even move from my desk where I was sitting.

[00:03:23] I had this podium that I was supposed to be sitting on.

[00:03:26] I didn't move there for at least three months.

[00:03:29] And I think it was just because I didn't want to be that person that people thought was important.

[00:03:33] I didn't want to be that guy and I didn't want to have this authoritative way about me or anything like that.

[00:03:39] So yeah, I really kind of went into a shell, excuse me, and I didn't enjoy what I was doing at all as a leader.

[00:03:46] And then luckily I met a mentor.

[00:03:48] I was very fortunate.

[00:03:49] Not everybody has this kind of story.

[00:03:51] Not everybody has this fortune, but I met a lady who came from America.

[00:03:56] She became the leader of our team, our department.

[00:04:00] And yeah, she just kind of, in the way she did things, showed me what a leadership actually was.

[00:04:08] And it was more towards who I was as a person.

[00:04:11] So I remember the first time she came into the office, we were all now, ooh, this American lady, you know, what are you going to do?

[00:04:17] And, you know, all the banters going around, the gossip and stuff.

[00:04:20] And I remember her calling me to her office and I thought, there we go.

[00:04:24] She's going to want to know the plan.

[00:04:26] And, you know, so I did a bit of homework the night before thinking, okay, she's going to ask me the stats.

[00:04:29] And I knew the stats.

[00:04:31] And I went into her office and we just spoke.

[00:04:33] I think it was like two, just over two hours, just about life.

[00:04:36] It was so cool.

[00:04:37] She had a background, obviously.

[00:04:38] She had a story.

[00:04:39] I had a story.

[00:04:41] And it was such a nice conversation.

[00:04:43] And immediately I was drawn to her like that because she was interested in me and genuinely interested.

[00:04:49] And I was like, wow, this is pretty cool.

[00:04:52] And then the next day she called me in and she had like roughly sketched a plan for our contact center.

[00:04:58] Just before that actually happened, we had a Great Places to Work survey at our contact center.

[00:05:03] And the operations team, we were one of 10 global call centers.

[00:05:07] The South African one finished last, 10th out of 10 call centers in terms of engagement on the Great Places to Work survey.

[00:05:14] So she came in to study the ship basically and she showed me like a rough plan and she wanted my input.

[00:05:21] But really wanted me to come up with plans.

[00:05:25] And I had plans and I thought, well, we could do this, we could do that.

[00:05:27] And she was like, brilliant.

[00:05:29] That's what you're going to do.

[00:05:30] That's what your part of the plan is.

[00:05:31] So making me feel valuable, making me feel like my contribution is actually incredibly important.

[00:05:37] So I walked out of that office.

[00:05:39] We had many other engagements, obviously.

[00:05:41] But I caught myself about maybe a month or two months later.

[00:05:46] I caught myself working harder than I ever worked before.

[00:05:50] Now, I was only 27.

[00:05:52] But I was working harder than I ever worked before.

[00:05:55] And I realized I was doing it because someone believed in me.

[00:05:57] And I didn't want to let them down.

[00:05:59] Yeah.

[00:05:59] And I thought, she got all of this from me and she didn't even pay a cent.

[00:06:04] Cost her zero.

[00:06:06] It just cost her time and effort.

[00:06:09] And because she believed in me and gave me this autonomy and made me feel like I was a valuable part of something, I went, I wanted to do well.

[00:06:16] Not because I have to, because I wanted to.

[00:06:18] And I realized that I could do that with my team leaders and that they could do it with their agents.

[00:06:24] And the next thing you know, we were doing that.

[00:06:26] You know, I followed her example and we started working in that way, making people feel like they belong.

[00:06:32] You know, anyone can stick up their hand and say, guys, this is not working.

[00:06:35] We were a team.

[00:06:36] We encouraged agents to speak up.

[00:06:40] And we 100% made them understand how exceptionally valuable they were.

[00:06:45] At the time, we were selling holidays in that company.

[00:06:49] And what we did is we actually told, we broke it down so the agents understood that when people go on holiday, it's a memory for the rest of their lives, especially if it's a good holiday.

[00:06:58] We can all remember our best holidays and reminisce about them.

[00:07:02] And we brought the agents in and we said, like, you are going to be a part of where that person takes their Facebook photos or where that person has a meal or where that person goes for holiday.

[00:07:12] You're part of that massive memory for those children to grow up with and the family to reminisce about for years.

[00:07:19] And the agents bought into that purpose.

[00:07:22] And they then started running with it.

[00:07:23] We did nothing else.

[00:07:24] And I remember very clearly, some agents would ask customers what they want to smell on holiday.

[00:07:31] And they were so involved that this was where they were going.

[00:07:34] And I was like, wow.

[00:07:35] And you know what?

[00:07:36] 12 months later, Great Places to Work came around again.

[00:07:39] We came second out of the 10.

[00:07:40] Yes.

[00:07:41] We went from 72% engagement in the contact center and operations team to 91 or 92, something like that, in one year.

[00:07:48] And it was just because we started to make people feel like they belong.

[00:07:55] We brought them in, into the plan.

[00:07:57] We shared the plan.

[00:07:58] You know, all the basics.

[00:08:00] It was basic stuff.

[00:08:02] And it was like, wow.

[00:08:04] And so from there, you know, I really realized what leadership was all about.

[00:08:08] And then I think something really happened to me.

[00:08:10] I don't think something really happened to me in 2021.

[00:08:12] At the end of 2021, I was 40 years old in 2021.

[00:08:17] I went down back.

[00:08:19] I was living in the UK already.

[00:08:20] Went to South Africa, joined a bunch of mates to cycle from Johannesburg to Cape Town, which is a thousand miles for a charity.

[00:08:28] And we did really well.

[00:08:29] It wasn't just the cyclists.

[00:08:31] We had runners that also ran the distance.

[00:08:34] And collectively, the runners and the cyclists, we collected, I think, 72,000 pounds for this charity, which is South African RANS is massive, massive, massive amounts of money.

[00:08:43] And I just remember feeling embarrassed because we were sitting at the end and we were meeting.

[00:08:49] This charity basically gets pays for people who can't afford it in underprivileged areas to go through university.

[00:08:56] And we were meeting the children that were part of the program.

[00:08:59] Some of them that are already qualified as professors, as doctors, as lawyers.

[00:09:02] So they were already adults who were meeting because this charity had been going for 30 years.

[00:09:06] So we were meeting all of them.

[00:09:07] I just remember meeting these people thinking they would not have been there if it wasn't for these people in the charity.

[00:09:12] And I felt very embarrassed because what have I done with my life?

[00:09:15] I've never given back like this before.

[00:09:16] And here are these people in the charity that have been doing it for three decades, not even wanting a thank you.

[00:09:22] They want nothing from you.

[00:09:24] Nothing.

[00:09:24] And I was like, how do I get to do this?

[00:09:27] And without a plan, without any right plan, I just resigned.

[00:09:32] That was November 2021.

[00:09:34] We did the ride.

[00:09:35] December, I resigned.

[00:09:36] February, I started Growth Crew 2022.

[00:09:39] And now 2025 will be three years.

[00:09:41] And because I knew that if I wanted to help more leaders and not just the people in my team, I had to do something.

[00:09:49] And that's what kind of inspired me to start Growth Crew.

[00:09:52] And yeah, that's where we are now.

[00:09:55] I love that story.

[00:09:56] I just want to pull you up on one thing, though.

[00:09:59] You hadn't got to that point by doing nothing.

[00:10:02] In the same way that the American lady that came in and believed in you and involved you and changed everything, you would have done that with your leaders.

[00:10:14] You know, so you have had an impact on their life.

[00:10:17] You've had an impact on people's lives.

[00:10:21] I mean, I've been smiling all the way through that story.

[00:10:25] And, you know, you and me have spoken many times about the similarities in making the jump into being self-employed wasn't particularly well considered or planned.

[00:10:37] It was born out of a desire to share and help.

[00:10:42] And it comes across in everything you say, how you conduct yourself, what you share on LinkedIn and the impact you've had with Growth Crew and the success stories you've shared with me about, you know, leaders having been transformed, not just in their role at work.

[00:11:03] But as happened to you, you become more confident.

[00:11:09] You start to enjoy it more.

[00:11:12] You find yourself working, I would say, harder, smarter, all of those things through a love of doing it and knowing the impact you have.

[00:11:22] But you've got something pretty special planned for next year, right?

[00:11:30] What's happening?

[00:11:32] Yeah, so, you know, I never thought that I would be someone who wrote a program or does a program, a leadership program.

[00:11:40] And I did, I created a leadership program, not immediately when I started, because like I said, I had no plan.

[00:11:46] Kind of winging it.

[00:11:48] I wouldn't suggest that to anybody who's listening to wing it.

[00:11:50] Rather make a plan.

[00:11:52] But anyway, yeah, I started a program and up to now I've worked with almost 90 individual leaders in three years.

[00:11:59] And this plan has evolved, or this program, sorry, has evolved and evolved and evolved.

[00:12:03] And it's in a place now where the results are incredible.

[00:12:05] So what I wanted to do was have my first in-person event.

[00:12:09] Now, I've done masterclasses online and webinars and things like that.

[00:12:12] But this is way beyond that.

[00:12:15] This is a, excuse me, an in-person event in London on the 23rd of January, 2025.

[00:12:20] It's going to be in a place called the Artist Loft.

[00:12:23] It's a really cool venue.

[00:12:25] It's in Shoreditch.

[00:12:26] So that gives you an idea that it's trendy, you know.

[00:12:29] And yeah, I've been to the venue.

[00:12:31] I've met the people that run the place.

[00:12:32] It's really, really nice.

[00:12:33] And so I'm hosting an in-person event called the Future Leaders Club.

[00:12:37] It's exclusively only going to be for 10 people.

[00:12:40] So what this is all about is, it's 10 people because I want to keep it exclusive.

[00:12:45] I want the people to, I want to be focused and everyone gets attention.

[00:12:49] And what it is basically is my current program on steroids.

[00:12:52] So every participant, before we get there, will get a pre-event assessment like the one

[00:12:58] I created.

[00:12:59] And that gives them, it's all about self-discovery.

[00:13:02] So they have time to reflect as leaders before they get there on their self-perception or how

[00:13:08] they see themselves as leaders.

[00:13:09] They get a chance to reflect on their main challenges they're facing right now, personal

[00:13:14] challenges and challenges at work, as well as how they deal with the challenges currently.

[00:13:20] What are the tools they use?

[00:13:21] We're going to look at what they want to change to become better leaders.

[00:13:24] We want to, we want to look at if they don't change anything, what would happen?

[00:13:28] What's the consequences of those things?

[00:13:29] And then we could talk about the goals.

[00:13:31] They're going to fill in those, those assessments and complete them prior to the event.

[00:13:36] They're going to send those to me.

[00:13:39] And that really forms the backbone of our entire day.

[00:13:43] Because in my mind, I can see the leaders skipping out of this venue because they can't

[00:13:49] wait to get back to their teams to implement what they've done or what they've learned.

[00:13:53] But it's not about what they've learned.

[00:13:55] It's about them learning how capable they really are.

[00:13:59] That's what gets me buzzing is they're going to skip out of there because they're going to

[00:14:02] realize what they're actually capable of as leaders and the role they play.

[00:14:07] And when, and you've been in that situation, Martin, and many people who listen to you would

[00:14:11] have been in that situation is when you're a leader and you get an aha moment from someone,

[00:14:16] right?

[00:14:16] Because of something you've done, that spurs you on to help as many people and help as

[00:14:23] much as possible, right?

[00:14:24] So that's the whole thing.

[00:14:26] So this, it's a very structured day.

[00:14:27] It's very intense.

[00:14:28] It's interactive.

[00:14:29] The 10 leaders might be from 10 different companies, but the participants are going

[00:14:34] to be learning from each other, sharing stories.

[00:14:37] And we're going to be going through actionable steps of how they're going to tackle and work

[00:14:42] through everything they put on their sheets with my help.

[00:14:45] So that's why I'm very excited about it.

[00:14:47] And it's aimed at leaders and future leaders.

[00:14:50] So it's those people in companies who the senior leaders feel are those talented individuals

[00:14:57] who are the future leaders.

[00:14:59] They might be leaders already, but they're going to be senior leaders in the future.

[00:15:02] And they want to invest in those people.

[00:15:05] They want to nurture and develop those people.

[00:15:06] This is for them.

[00:15:08] Because, yeah, like I said, I can see them skipping out of there and having a really incredible

[00:15:14] time.

[00:15:15] And because they're going to, it's going to be, yeah, lots of aha moments.

[00:15:19] If I, if I see it, anything from the program I do with individuals, this is just going to

[00:15:23] be the next step.

[00:15:24] And then what I offer, what's going to happen prior, sorry, post the events is one week after

[00:15:30] the events.

[00:15:31] I'm going to check in with every single participant on the commitments they've made

[00:15:38] to themselves.

[00:15:38] What are they going to work on?

[00:15:40] They're going to share them with me.

[00:15:41] And then one month later, we're going to have a very formal call one-on-one with every

[00:15:46] leader.

[00:15:47] And we're going to go through progress and what they've put in place and how it's going.

[00:15:52] It's not just going to be, you know, come to the session, goodbye.

[00:15:55] It's about implementation and carrying this forward for a very, very long time.

[00:15:59] So that's why one month after, and that's what I find works with my program is that it's

[00:16:04] the mentorship that that's the magic where the magic happens, not necessarily on the

[00:16:08] day.

[00:16:09] So yeah, the Future Leaders Club, I can't wait.

[00:16:12] I think some of the things there, I think it sounds amazing to start with, but that kind

[00:16:19] of all venue, intimate number, the word intimate came up to me then was these guys will become

[00:16:26] a group, you know, they will form really.

[00:16:30] They will get to work with you in a small enough group that they'll get to know you,

[00:16:37] your mentorship, your guidance.

[00:16:41] And much like your story, you know, I think we've, me and you have talked about this a few

[00:16:46] times, but similarly, I had a lady come into a contact center I was working at.

[00:16:52] I was like a bull in a China shop at that point, very similar to you.

[00:16:57] I like to see myself as disruptive, a bit different going against my, I worked in a big,

[00:17:04] big center.

[00:17:05] So we had five contact center managers and I was one of the five.

[00:17:09] The other four had been there a long time.

[00:17:12] They all knew each other really well.

[00:17:13] And I came in and purposefully kind of just did my own thing.

[00:17:17] And much like you, I was, I was a, it wasn't like poacher turned gamekeeper, but I could

[00:17:25] at times be troublesome as a, as an agent and a team leader, mainly because I just like you,

[00:17:32] I got overexcited.

[00:17:34] I had fun.

[00:17:34] And it was when this new contact center director came in much like you, the first interaction

[00:17:43] with her, I was absolutely buzzing because she was a bit different.

[00:17:51] The things she talked about were a bit different.

[00:17:54] She had real passion.

[00:17:55] She really, really challenged you, but she saw something in me.

[00:18:01] This is so similar to yours.

[00:18:02] She saw something in me that I didn't yet see myself.

[00:18:06] I didn't think I was capable of doing the things that she wanted me to do.

[00:18:13] And, you know, she kicked me out of my comfort zone and the kick was powered with belief.

[00:18:19] And right now there will be contact center leaders, senior leaders who can look at their

[00:18:28] population of leaders and they might see someone who is a less, it's a bit of a generalized

[00:18:36] term, but see someone who is a rough diamond, someone that they go, there's something about

[00:18:42] this person who with the right guidance, the, that the senior leader just doesn't have the

[00:18:51] time to, to invest, but with the right guidance, the right framework, the right unlocking of

[00:19:00] certain things is, is our future.

[00:19:03] It's the future of this contact center.

[00:19:06] And for me, how you've explained the future leaders club, I would be thinking, I've got

[00:19:14] someone I know who's really, really, really benefit from this.

[00:19:19] And the added bonus of course is they get to spend, they get to spend time with you.

[00:19:24] So yes.

[00:19:25] And there'll be food.

[00:19:26] No.

[00:19:27] And you know what?

[00:19:27] You said something that it's very important, Martin is that self-belief, right?

[00:19:32] And that's why I said, they're going to skip out of there because they, not because of all

[00:19:37] the stuff they've learned, like the practical stuff, but it's more the self-belief that equips

[00:19:41] them to become, to be better strategic thinkers, to be better decision makers, problem solvers,

[00:19:49] team managers, communicators, better, just more confident in themselves.

[00:19:55] And that's the secret sauce.

[00:19:57] Because so many of the leaders I'm sure that you worked with in the past and certainly the

[00:20:01] ones I work with now in, you know, for some reason, emerging leaders have gravitated towards

[00:20:08] me.

[00:20:08] And that was not my, my idea or I never thought, I never pursued that, but it's happened over

[00:20:14] the last two years.

[00:20:16] And so many of them share similar challenges.

[00:20:20] And it's the ones we face too.

[00:20:22] You know, they want to be perfect today.

[00:20:25] They want to be perfect.

[00:20:26] They want to know everything the senior leader who's been there for 20 years knows today.

[00:20:30] You know, they don't want to put themselves in uncomfortable situations.

[00:20:33] And then what happens is they kind of, because they want to be perfect.

[00:20:37] One of the things is they want to be perfect.

[00:20:40] They kind of shackle themselves because then they don't do anything that might prevent them

[00:20:45] from not looking perfect.

[00:20:46] And that just, that's such a, got such a negative impact on them personally, on the business,

[00:20:53] but also on their team.

[00:20:55] So they're all, so many of them are standing in their own way.

[00:20:59] They just don't have the belief to make that decision, to, to, to know that they can solve

[00:21:07] that problem.

[00:21:07] Just sit back.

[00:21:08] You know?

[00:21:09] So this is what this, this challenge or sorry, this Future Leaders Club event is all about

[00:21:13] on the day is when they, the 10 of them get there.

[00:21:18] And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm so, I'm so happy that you mentioned that, that they are going to be

[00:21:22] a 10 that could really would and share forever to come, you know?

[00:21:26] Yeah.

[00:21:28] But they're going to be there.

[00:21:29] And the common stuff that we've put on our assessments are going to be shared.

[00:21:35] And we're going to say, well, we all deal with this.

[00:21:38] And then we're going to talk about how we deal with it.

[00:21:40] And that's the, that's where the magic happens.

[00:21:43] So yeah, it's, yeah, that's super important.

[00:21:46] When you think about that sharing as well, you mentioned in your story, a couple of things

[00:21:52] and by sharing, I connect, I connect with you because you know what I struggled with,

[00:21:58] with conflict.

[00:22:00] And in the same way that you mentioned, you know, that your team realized that being involved

[00:22:06] in holidays is making memories for life as leaders, we have the ability to give people

[00:22:13] who work for us memories and skills that where they will stay with them for life.

[00:22:20] So this contact center leader that I mentioned through understanding me understood I had a problem

[00:22:26] with conflict.

[00:22:28] I would avoid it.

[00:22:28] I was too diplomatic, wanting to be everyone's friends, very similar.

[00:22:33] And you know, I mistakenly thought if to deal with conflict, I have to change my personality.

[00:22:41] I have to be serious and I'm going to get you an adversarial.

[00:22:47] And she, along with my peers, arranged for us to undertake some training on radical candor,

[00:22:57] being candid.

[00:22:58] And a lot of that, excuse me, obviously is super beneficial for conflict and knowing and

[00:23:08] having the skills and the framework that I could still be myself in conflict, still be calm,

[00:23:17] measured, compassionate, but resolve conflict meant I started walking towards it instead of

[00:23:25] taking any other exit.

[00:23:27] I could, unlike you, hoping things would just sort themselves out.

[00:23:31] And that is a memory and a skill that stuck with me for my life thanks to my leader understanding

[00:23:42] what were the things that I struggled with or didn't, you know, just avoided those types

[00:23:50] of things.

[00:23:51] So, so much of that is about connection.

[00:23:53] It's about some of the, you know, your, this self-awareness to start with.

[00:23:58] And then when you share that in a, in a, in a small group that are all there for the same

[00:24:02] purpose, absolute magic can happen.

[00:24:06] Absolute magic.

[00:24:07] And I'm a hundred percent convinced with you at the helm, because you are an extremely hard

[00:24:13] guy to dislike.

[00:24:14] Uh, you mentioned you have an affinity with Man United and it still didn't hit me the same

[00:24:19] way that someone else telling me that would.

[00:24:22] I was still like, Oh, I still wanted to, you know, give you a hug.

[00:24:25] So yeah, with you at the helm, I, I'm excited to see what, what will come out of this, what

[00:24:34] will come out of this.

[00:24:34] So let's just do some of the basics again.

[00:24:39] When is it happening?

[00:24:41] It's on the 23rd of January, 2025.

[00:24:45] In London.

[00:24:46] In London.

[00:24:47] It started nine in the morning until four in the afternoon.

[00:24:49] But the first hour is basically I'm getting people, I'm giving people, we officially started

[00:24:53] at 10, but from nine o'clock there'll be coffee and stuff like that.

[00:24:57] And a bit of networking.

[00:24:58] Then we start at 10 o'clock.

[00:24:59] We have a lunch break.

[00:25:00] Then we finish at four.

[00:25:03] And during the day, there'll be refreshments and snacks available for everybody.

[00:25:06] And then at the end of the day, I'm going to offer people to come to for a drink if they

[00:25:09] want to, it's optional to wind down and just, you know, maybe some more networking

[00:25:13] and share the, share the highlights of the day.

[00:25:15] But yeah, 23rd of January, 2025 in Shoreditch in London.

[00:25:19] There's a register interest.

[00:25:21] There's a register your interest page that I've created.

[00:25:24] If you register your interest, basically what you do is you'll get some more information about

[00:25:29] how the day is structured.

[00:25:30] So a much better idea of the agenda and every topic we're going to be covering throughout

[00:25:34] the day.

[00:25:35] It's quite intense.

[00:25:36] Then you're going to also learn, there's a little video I made that gives you a bit

[00:25:40] more insight of the venue and where we'll be doing it as well as what's going to be

[00:25:44] happening.

[00:25:44] You'll also get priority to know when I'm going to actually open the tickets to sell

[00:25:51] and then the pricing and all that kind of stuff.

[00:25:53] So register your interest.

[00:25:55] There's absolutely no risk at that because all you're going to get is information.

[00:25:58] What's the site address?

[00:26:00] The site address, and I haven't, it's a landing page.

[00:26:03] I can give the link.

[00:26:04] I can give the link to the landing page to register your interest.

[00:26:07] It's also on my website, growthcrew.co.uk, but I'll put it, I'll share a link with

[00:26:12] you, Martin, that you can actually put in there.

[00:26:13] Well, I'm, you know, you've helped in the team leader community.

[00:26:18] You've done a masterclass, which was really well received.

[00:26:21] You have a lot of fans in the team leader community.

[00:26:24] I will share that in there as well.

[00:26:27] I'm super, super behind this because I know, you know, one thing, one thing me and you have

[00:26:36] spoken about.

[00:26:37] We're not particularly good at blowing our own trumpet.

[00:26:40] So I'm going to blow yours for you.

[00:26:42] Some of the feedback you've had about your, the programs that you've done that have led

[00:26:48] up to this, this is kind of like the evolution, right?

[00:26:51] Of all the other programs.

[00:26:52] But some of the feedback you've shared with me that you've received, including an email

[00:26:58] the other day from a CEO who was just blown away by the difference he'd seen already in

[00:27:05] his, you know, in his leadership team following the completion of your program is testament to

[00:27:12] your skills and your passion and how much you, you want to do this, right?

[00:27:19] Yeah.

[00:27:19] Yeah.

[00:27:20] I mean, that was really nice because I never met the CEO before.

[00:27:25] I worked with his team, six of them.

[00:27:28] And it was a 90 day program that I run called Leading with Purpose.

[00:27:32] Very, very similar to the program I'm doing, but just not as intense.

[00:27:37] And yeah, after three months of working with a team, I offer a debrief at the end of my,

[00:27:42] I always give a bit of a debrief to talk about.

[00:27:44] I don't share any personal stuff that was talked about in the one-to-ones.

[00:27:48] They know that and they're not going to get that out of me.

[00:27:50] But it's more about just sharing the underlining things I've seen.

[00:27:54] Like, do they have an avenue to go to for support?

[00:27:58] Is there something I can, is there, I make suggestions in terms of the business and what

[00:28:02] could, what could the support look like for these leaders?

[00:28:05] What is it that they common, the common things they might've been finding as a challenge that

[00:28:09] they could work on as a business to solve?

[00:28:12] And yeah, the debrief went really well.

[00:28:14] And within the debrief was some of his two ICs.

[00:28:18] And they were just talking about the difference that they've seen.

[00:28:22] And he echoed the difference that he'd seen in that short time.

[00:28:26] So yeah, he felt the need to send me an email straight after just the personal thank you

[00:28:30] and the difference he'd seen.

[00:28:31] And he looks forward to future engagements.

[00:28:33] And so that's the kind of stuff that fuels you.

[00:28:36] Cause you know, like we say, you know, you don't always, you don't always feel like, am

[00:28:41] I making a difference?

[00:28:42] Is what I'm doing actually, isn't it just common sense?

[00:28:45] Doesn't, doesn't everybody already get this?

[00:28:48] And you've got to sometimes remind yourself that it's, and it's difficult for me to do sometimes

[00:28:52] that it's not common sense.

[00:28:53] That not everyone sees this, you know, not everyone sees it the way I see it.

[00:28:57] And I certainly don't see other things that they're good at the way they see it.

[00:29:00] So we've all got things that we work on that we're, that we've got an affinity for

[00:29:04] that we're really good at.

[00:29:05] So yeah, for me, it's a nice, it's a nice feeling when you get those kinds of emails

[00:29:10] or feedback sessions.

[00:29:11] And coming from a call center perspective, you know, luckily for both of us, when you were

[00:29:15] in a call center and I worked in three call centers in my almost 20 years, you get to

[00:29:20] know a lot of people because call centers are big, right?

[00:29:23] So I mean, the one was 150, the one was 200 people.

[00:29:27] And what's nice about call centers, I don't know if you get this in other places, I'm

[00:29:29] sure you do, but probably not to the same scale is when you leave and you've made an

[00:29:33] impression, everybody wants to thank you and they write you notes and you get kind

[00:29:37] of like a nice, you get like nice things, you know?

[00:29:40] And I'll be honest, sometimes when I'm sitting here and I'm thinking to myself, you

[00:29:45] know, there's moments when I died myself and I think, man, what am I doing?

[00:29:48] You know, is this even working?

[00:29:50] Is I got to, I got to go sometimes back to the pages.

[00:29:55] I got a flip file that's that was given to me by one of the contact centers I worked

[00:30:00] in and they put in, everybody wrote something like a message to me in some way or shape

[00:30:05] or form.

[00:30:06] And then I just, I go and read that and it sounds really arrogant right now as I'm

[00:30:09] talking about it.

[00:30:09] But as I read that, I realize, oh, wow, actually I am making an impact.

[00:30:15] I do make an impact.

[00:30:16] And what I am doing is helping people.

[00:30:18] And that's the reason I started in the first place.

[00:30:20] If you think back to that story.

[00:30:21] So sometimes we need that and those kinds of feedback, the feedback that I got on Google

[00:30:26] reviews and the feedback I have in my LinkedIn recommendations, those mean a lot.

[00:30:29] You know, you read through those and you think, wow, that's pretty special.

[00:30:33] You know, I told you, I think I shared the story with you.

[00:30:35] There was a while ago when I was thinking to myself, how long will I continue with growth

[00:30:38] crew?

[00:30:38] You know, it's a lot of fun.

[00:30:39] I'm having great time.

[00:30:40] I'm personally, my personal developer has gone through the roof.

[00:30:42] I mean, the first person I saw as a business owner and a mentor, the first leader I saw

[00:30:48] back in 2022, I am so much better now than I was then.

[00:30:53] So I'm like, I wish I could see them again.

[00:30:55] So I could help them again.

[00:30:57] But you get those feelings and, you know, sometimes you struggle with it and then you get messages

[00:31:02] like, I got a message in one of these moments where the guy just said, you've changed my life.

[00:31:07] And we were together for five days.

[00:31:08] And I was like, wow, you know, for someone to write that to you, that's pretty special.

[00:31:12] And that's the fuel that keeps me going.

[00:31:14] And I think that's what I mentioned with leaders is once they know their capabilities and the

[00:31:19] impact they can have on other people, because as a leader, you have the opportunity to change

[00:31:23] someone's life.

[00:31:25] There's one of my favorite, favorite quotes is from a guy called Kevin Frazier.

[00:31:29] He's a leadership guy in the UK, but he's actually born in South Africa, South African

[00:31:33] guy.

[00:31:34] And I had to get that in.

[00:31:35] I had to get that in.

[00:31:36] And he sounds like me, looks like me, talks like me.

[00:31:38] So anyway, one of my favorite quotes is he says, leaders have the ability to inspire

[00:31:45] others to do great things themselves.

[00:31:47] And that is so, so true.

[00:31:50] And what I want from these leaders on that day is to leave their understanding that they

[00:31:55] have the ability to inspire other people.

[00:31:57] You were saying earlier about as a leader, you get to help people to get to where they're

[00:32:01] going, but you can actually even help them to get to where they never thought they could

[00:32:05] possibly get to.

[00:32:06] That's what you can do as a leader.

[00:32:07] And like, I mean, it's like a superpower.

[00:32:09] And once these leaders leave there, once you know that feeling and you're like, then

[00:32:13] you, then you're on autopilot because then you don't need fuel.

[00:32:16] You're burned, you know, that flame burns high and yeah, it's a wonderful, wonderful

[00:32:20] feeling.

[00:32:20] And that's what I, that's, I'm confident these leaders are going to get that feeling when they

[00:32:24] walk out of there.

[00:32:24] Oh, they a hundred percent will.

[00:32:26] And I mentioned earlier that me and you catch up probably every week and it's because we're

[00:32:31] in similar situations.

[00:32:33] You know, we are the David against many Goliaths.

[00:32:37] We're single business owners in the contact center, CX leadership, whatever you want kind

[00:32:43] of space.

[00:32:44] And it's a tough old gig.

[00:32:46] It's a tough old gig.

[00:32:49] And you know, you, you, you know, you, you shared those kinds of the, the doubts and that's

[00:32:56] why this kind of connection me and you have in the chats we have and are so important.

[00:33:01] And that's one added benefit you're offering people that come to be part of the future leaders

[00:33:08] club.

[00:33:09] And it, and it makes a difference because, you know, we, we help each other when we're,

[00:33:14] because it's interesting, isn't it?

[00:33:16] The, it's a, it's a sad state of affairs that often the human impact isn't reflected in

[00:33:24] pounds and pence.

[00:33:26] So, you know, someone, I think I mentioned to you the other day, I'm really proud of

[00:33:33] the fact that just on Spotify alone, there's people listening to old episodes of the podcast.

[00:33:41] We, it's been every day this year, each episode gets about a thousand listens across various

[00:33:47] platforms, but Spotify is the one that gives you the most data.

[00:33:52] Every day I look and I think, God, 10 people have listened to an episode from two years ago

[00:34:00] and I will get, this is the equivalent of my folder, the folder that you have.

[00:34:05] I will get messages on LinkedIn that say, I listened to this episode with Sandria.

[00:34:10] It was really inspiring.

[00:34:12] It's helped me, blah, blah, blah.

[00:34:14] And that again, like you say, that's the fuel.

[00:34:18] That's the fuel that goes, yeah, you know what?

[00:34:22] I'm going to keep going.

[00:34:23] I may have had a tough day with X, Y, and Z and I haven't got this partnership.

[00:34:29] And these people aren't, said they were going to work for me and they don't.

[00:34:33] Then you get something like that and you're like, this is meaningful stuff.

[00:34:38] And, and you know, what, what you do is meaningful.

[00:34:42] You like, you say that guy that said you've changed his life in, in five days is, you know,

[00:34:49] leadership is a gift.

[00:34:51] Yeah.

[00:34:52] And if you share it, then you can do pretty spectacular things.

[00:34:56] So yeah, this, this, this is going to be great.

[00:35:00] This is, this is going to be great.

[00:35:03] Yeah.

[00:35:03] Thanks Martin.

[00:35:04] And you know, it's remarkable.

[00:35:05] Like you say, the fuel, like those notes, those messages on Spotify, on the, on the podcast,

[00:35:09] or even the amounts of people you see, watch it.

[00:35:12] That's the fuel.

[00:35:13] And that's exactly for the leaders.

[00:35:14] And I know you mentioned that it's, it's, it's, it's people don't always measure it in pounds

[00:35:20] and pence, but if you think about just the story I shared earlier about my story, when

[00:35:24] that leader came in and I find myself working so hard because someone believed in me, I didn't

[00:35:29] want to let them down.

[00:35:30] What they got out of me is they retained me for 14 years.

[00:35:35] I worked there.

[00:35:37] They retained my team, my team, none of my team members, my team leaders ever left the

[00:35:42] agents.

[00:35:42] Some of the agents had been at the business for 20 years, call center agents.

[00:35:46] That's not common.

[00:35:47] So retention, they got retention from us.

[00:35:50] They got better engagement first from me because the other, I was now a valuable part

[00:35:56] of this team, part of the bigger picture.

[00:35:58] I saw myself in the plan and I was able to do that and learn from her and give it to my

[00:36:03] team leaders.

[00:36:03] So they got better engagement from everybody.

[00:36:05] I said earlier that the agents used to now speak up, come up with ideas.

[00:36:10] We used to, they were part of it.

[00:36:11] They were as important as anybody else, if not more important.

[00:36:14] So they got engagement.

[00:36:17] Productivity skyrocketed.

[00:36:17] When you're part of a team and I always say this with leaders, you know, as leaders,

[00:36:22] the environment we create drive the behavior within the contact center or within our teams.

[00:36:28] And I think it was John Amici who speaks in his book, The Promises of Giants, when he mentions that every single day, people in your team are making decisions.

[00:36:35] As a leader, you cannot be part of every decision.

[00:36:38] You can't speak to every customer.

[00:36:39] You can't send every email.

[00:36:40] You can't be in every situation as a leader.

[00:36:42] You can't do it.

[00:36:43] So there are hundreds of decisions you're not even involved in.

[00:36:46] And they're not just business decisions.

[00:36:48] Sometimes in your team, you might have me in a contact center.

[00:36:51] You might have a customer service contact center agent who needs to phone a customer back.

[00:36:57] A disgruntled customer.

[00:36:58] It's five, it's 10 to five before I leave.

[00:37:02] This customer is waiting for my call.

[00:37:03] It's going to be an uncomfortable conversation.

[00:37:06] I could phone them or I could open Instagram and just doom scroll for 10 minutes and go home, call it a day.

[00:37:12] That's also a decision, right?

[00:37:14] That your team member is making.

[00:37:16] If they're in an environment where they feel part of the team, that their contribution is valuable, that what they do matters to other people and is meaningful to them, they will always decide to phone the customer and not open Instagram.

[00:37:29] So that's productivity.

[00:37:30] And then the last one is most likely revenue.

[00:37:33] In my contact center, and this is no word of a lie, we then, after that, when we started working so well together, we had 17 months in a row where it's our target, which was unprecedented.

[00:37:45] No one, it never happened before.

[00:37:47] 17 months.

[00:37:49] So that's productivity, engagement, revenue, and retention.

[00:37:53] And that was just because one person worked on one leader who worked on more leaders who were bang.

[00:37:59] You know, that's it.

[00:37:59] So it's amazing.

[00:38:00] Amazing.

[00:38:01] Isn't it?

[00:38:02] Yeah.

[00:38:02] Absolutely amazing.

[00:38:04] Well, you will share the link.

[00:38:06] Yes.

[00:38:07] And people can, people see you on LinkedIn all the time.

[00:38:10] They can contact you there.

[00:38:11] They can go to the Growth Crew website.

[00:38:14] Give, give one of your leaders the opportunity to work with this amazing, amazing human being.

[00:38:22] Don't hold it against him that he's a Tottenham fan now and South African.

[00:38:28] He is, it is a pleasure to be his friend and for him to be part of our world, influencing leaders to be, to be better.

[00:38:38] And Clayton, thank you so much for coming on.

[00:38:41] We will definitely do one to see how it went.

[00:38:44] And I look forward to seeing some, some pictures of this, of you in a, in a trendy environment.

[00:38:51] Will you be wearing like a, you're going hipster, like a beret or something?

[00:38:55] Oh, I've got my outfit.

[00:38:56] I just need to grow a top knot.

[00:38:57] Oh, that's a low blow, my friend.

[00:39:01] It's taken me years to grow.

[00:39:02] I never worry.

[00:39:03] My growth is really slow.

[00:39:04] But anyway, I want to say to you, Martin, thank you so much for, not just for obviously for this immediate episode where you've given a media opportunity to talk about what I do and talk about me so nicely.

[00:39:16] You know, you're, I always call you Mr. Contact Center UK because you don't just, you do this because you genuinely care and you do it for so many people.

[00:39:27] And I think I speak on behalf of everyone when I say, on Mondays, religiously, it takes you a long time, but you send out who's available for jobs and who needs, who's looking for work in the contact center industry.

[00:39:38] You don't have to do that.

[00:39:39] You do it every single Monday.

[00:39:41] When I first met you, you were doing things for the, for Ukraine.

[00:39:45] I mean, you know, the, the, the girls football on Saturdays takes up so much of your time for, for, for nothing, for love only.

[00:39:51] You do it for love.

[00:39:52] Right.

[00:39:53] And you have so much admin to do and politics and all this kind of stuff, but you do it because you care.

[00:39:58] And then for the contact center, you get invited everywhere, pillar to post and you do it.

[00:40:03] And yeah, man, you're just such a, such a character in the contact center industry.

[00:40:07] And I think we, the contact center industry UK would be a lot less if it wasn't for you.

[00:40:11] I mean, I'm serious when I say that.

[00:40:13] I think you're a major part of what keeps the, everything together.

[00:40:16] You're the gel.

[00:40:16] Everyone always asks for you at your stand at the expo in two weeks time will be the busiest stand by far.

[00:40:22] It would be the stand.

[00:40:23] Well, if you, if you go to that stand, I will be the one just hugging Clayton.

[00:40:28] We're just going to be hugging each other.

[00:40:30] It's going to be awkward for those other people.

[00:40:33] Just ignore us.

[00:40:35] Clayton, thank you so much.

[00:40:37] And I will see you at the expo, my friend.

[00:40:39] Yeah.

[00:40:40] See you at the expo.

[00:40:41] You're the army.

[00:40:43] Yes, mate.